15,000 Mile Oil Change Interval

I've posted about this on some other (non-wood/chainsaw related) forums and it always sparks some colorful conversation. I do a lot of things in life that others wouldn't bother to do. On the surface it appears as though my motivation is simply that I'm cheap. The truth, however, is that I have a HUGE hatred for throwing something away unless I truly believe I can't get any more use out of it. Waste not want not. Our "throw-away society" sickens me.

So, I told you that to tell you this. I bought a 2002 Toyota Tacoma V6, Limited, TRD new off of the lot in Dudley, MA, in March of 2002. I absolutely could not afford the truck, but I said it was worth it because I figured the truck would probably outlast me and that I intended to find out. I went there to buy a Tacoma and when I watched them pull it off of the hauler I told them that was the one I wanted. It had 2 miles on it before my test drive which brought the total up to 8. As I type this it has just over 192, 400 miles on it. It's been titled in three states and has spent time at six addresses.

I run only Mobil 1 synthetic oil and use either Mobil 1 or Bosch oil filters. I traditionally ran 7,500 miles on a change but for several years I've been doing an oil experiment to see just how far I can safely go. To do this I've taken up the services of Blackstone Laboratories in Fort Wayne, IN. They do a very in-depth analysis of the engine oil (and other lubricants) and can tell you quite a lot about both the internal health of your engine including how it compares to averages of all of the similar engines they've tested. For an extra fee (of course!) they'll do testing on the actual oil itself to determine how broken down it is and whether it could have been safely run longer while still providing adequate protection for the engine.

Today I got my most recent analysis and report back from my last oil change. The total mileage was 13,059 miles. I specifically asked them if I could go 15,000 miles the next time around and this is what they said:

"BEAU: It's been about a year and a half since your last sample, and we're pleased to report that all is still well in your Tacoma. Toyota really knows how to build them - we rarely see problems in these engines. The only thing you might want to check out is the air filtration system. Some of this is additive in the oil itself, but even taking out the ~7 ppm Mobil 1 uses, your silicon level is 21 ppm, which is a bit high. It doesn't seem to be causing any problems though - wear metals are good, as usual. So give the air filtration system a check. The TBN was good, so try 15,000 miles."

To explain the extra verbiage, my silicon levels have been slightly elevated ever since I started using a K&N high flow air filter, so I suspect that's the culprit. For the time being I've switched back to a traditional filter.

I'll probably go 14,000 miles on the next change and get another analysis for the sake of science, but if I'm feeling adventurous in another 18 months I may just go the 15,000!

Think about how much less spent oil and dirty filters one would discard over the life of a vehicle if they went 15,000 miles (or more!) on a change. I have a buddy who runs nothing but diesels with auxiliary oil filtration systems. He is the one who turned me on to Blackstone labs. The last I checked, he does a full oil change at 24,000 miles!

 

Great info, NTS.
I routinely run 10,000 miles on our 2006 jetta diesel with Amsoil 5w-40 Euro car formula. It has 200,000 miles on the odometer. Hoping to get at least another 100,000.

Not sure when the big push for 3,000 mile oil changes started, but it seems like it was about when all the Jiffy lubes started popping up.

The owners manual for my Dodge/Cummins calls for 7500 mile intervals. Holds 11 qts , IIRC
My GMC van has the oil sensing system so I don't actually watch the miles. Seems to go about 12,000

 

Yeah, k&n's typically don't filter well enough.


Yota makes a quality product. We've got an 04 4runner with the v8 that we bought new and love it. It only has 150k on her though, and I stick to the 7500 miles oil change interval. I know that I could go further, but I don't.

Now, I run my oil 12k ( factory recommendation) on my Audi 4.0 v8, but that thing holds 8 qts of oil.


I'm very familiar with Blackstone labs from my other forums I'm on.

 

Interesting.
I've been saying for years that for many people, the whole 3k oil change thing is way overkill.
Several thoughts on K&N air filters and the like.
1. For many vehicles they provide very little or even zero performance increase unless there have been other substantial mods done.
2. They do allow increased flow (potentially) but at the expense of filtration. A lot of the diesel guys will tell you that you can tell when a guys off roads his truck with a K&N filter in place...one of the first signs is the edges of the turbo fins get rounded off.

I worked 9 years as a "big 4" motorcycle dealership tech, and I can't tell you the number of engines that I have rebuilt that were running K&Ns and had MAJOR top end engine wear...the type you see from sucking fine dirt particles.
The only way I will run K&N on my bikes is to run a properly oiled foam sleeve over them...

 

Oil sensing system? That's new to me. What exactly does the system sense? Not being a smart azz, just wondering if it's viscosity, opacity, conductivity, % solids, etc....

 

The way they're advertised you'd think they were the best thing since sliced bread.

Is there anything out there with similar performance improvements and better filtering characteristics?

 

You know, I've read for years that they aren't great at filtering. I was actually persuaded to get one by my same diesel buddy who does the 24k mile change. I can tell you that my fuel economy increased as well as the "throttle response" of the engine. It also downshifted a lot less on inclines when I was using the cruise control. Of course none of that means chit if it's at the expense of the engine!

 

sorry for the vague description
I don't know what they call it. There is an info center on the dash. It tells me when to change the oil.
It will read
"__% oil life remaining"

then, when it needs changed it reads
" change engine oil soon"

 

I would trust a UOA over an idiot light in the dash. I run M1 syn in my truck and change about every 10K. Just use a good filter and life will be good.

 

Yep, my Audi does that too. But many cars just have a reminder at start up telling you when you have a few thousand miles last. Then some make a noise at startup when you've got 1000 miles or less until the oil change time.

 

I'm thoroughly intrigued by this oil replacement reminder that isn't based just on mileage. Looks like I have some homework to do. I love to learn, thanks fellas!

 

Well, I'm trying! I have always been a conventional oil, every 3,000 mile guy. I have a 2014 Camry, and I have been changing oil and filter twice a year-about 5,000 miles, using the Toyota branded synthetic. I bought a 2015 Tundra last August-I'm going to try and make myself go a year-that will probably be about 5500 miles at the rate I use the truck. Old habits are hard to break!

 

Very interesting . . . check this out...

What is an oil life indicator?

 

Good on you! If you're using synthetic oil you can VERY comfortably go more than 5,500. No reason to worry at all with 7,500. Of course that goes along with using a quality filter too.

 

My understanding of the "oil change indicator", at least for the newer cars, is that it is not a "oil sensor". Rather, it is that the computer monitors things like:
-# of starts (cold vs hot)
-miles (obviously)
-coolant temp (also oil & air temp on some)
-total run time
-RPM (idle time, average, and peak)
-load (speed+rpm+throttle position)
the computer then uses this information to calculate a "lifespan" using an algorithm...
I'm sure there are variations on this between brands, models, and age of vehicle

 

You raise a good point and one I agree with that in some situations it is possible with today's premium synthetics to run beyond 15,000 miles or a year between oil and filter changes but it certainly is not an absolute given that you can. It depends on the severity of the service the vehicle is exposed to and the engine it is used in. I've been running premium synthetic in many vehicles and some with lots of miles from before anyone knew what they were or represented. (30 plus years)You mention one in particular. They are an interesting case. since the early days of their synthetics they have been forced to improve their top of the line oil to get to the 15,000 mile limit. Years ago one of their retired engineers was quoted as saying the oils were 'cost engineered.' Your 7,500 mile changes were probably serendipitous. They are a great marketing company for sure. Their top of the line synthetics are now fine. You are obviously ok now. Some modern engines place extremely severe demands on the oil. The better engines now have computers that have the ability to monitor the demands placed on the oil and shows the percent of oil life remaining. Unless one likes to gamble (and pay for oil analysis) it is best to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. All of today's GDI engines are better protected (preventing intake valve carbon issues) by top quality synthetics which are becoming more plentiful. 200,000 miles is not excessive for today's engines properly maintained. I've heard from my garage shop friend that some of the guys around here with long commutes have 400,000 miles on little 4 bangers and have never had a wrench on them. Like you say I expect there will be many opinions just like what wood stove is best and so forth. Let's stay tuned.

 

You are a wise man and doing it right.

 

Exactly right!

 

I average 1500 miles a year on my 2004 Tundra and change the oil and filter once a year. I do use synthetic oil, could I change it every 2 years?