Ideal Steel Season #2 Tips, Tricks, and Improvements.

Agreed, the process should not take much more than 15 mins on a solid coal bed to engaging the cat and closing the air damper to cruise control.

 

I tried to explain how this all works in post #376 in this thread.

800F at the combustor is actually very cool. Mine typically runs 1,400 F and will occasionally go over 1.500F although I do not allow it to live at those temps. for long. You should be able to shut the stove down to the point where the cat. stalls (is under 600 to 750F) just by closing the draft all the way but it will take a while because again, the cat. is burning the smoke given off by the wood and closing the draft actually results in an increase in smoke under most conditions, at least that is the immediate result. Again, see post #376 for a longer explanation.

Brian

 

I am measuring the stove top with the same thermometer shown, the one that comes with the stove. I suppose that thermometer could be off, maybe I should pick up another one. Perhaps I should just take the plunge and get an ir one.
I think my chimney is mediocre at best, and too much draft should not be an issue. It's 17 feet of brick chimney, clay lined 7x7 tiles, all interior chimney. It exits 4' above the peek. I have about 4 feet of single wall running into it with 1 90 degree elbow.
I am hoping to line this chimney with SS next summer. However, if more draft would mean a hotter stove I definitely don't need that!

 

It's not a cat probe, it's a surface thermometer that he's using

 

Not uncommon in my experience. I don't think that's over firing the stove either. The selection of wood you are using plays a significant factor also.

What type of wood, how dry is it, and how full are you loading the stove?

 

Whenever I used to put the stove top gauge on the front like that I saw the same temperatures. Nothing to worry about.

 

The wood I am using is all ash and rock(sugar) maple. It has only dried about 9 months. I don't know the moisture content of it, but I think it's pretty dry. It sat in a wide open field in full sun all day all summer.

I have been loading the stove right up at least 3/4 full, because i am shooting for a 12 burn( which at least to some degree I am getting, with good coals after 12 hours). Everything would be great if I could just keep the stove temps a bit lower. They just get to the point where I get nervous. I had a lopi prior and never had issues.

BDF i went back a reread post 376 again. A very informative post indeed. I appreciate your input and patience. I felt like I am using the techniques you outlined, but I am still having the issues sometimes. Tonight I loaded the stove and let it get going and closed it back to 1/4 open. It immediately screamed sky high. I tried opening the draft some to induce some flames to get the cat to come down a bit, but it would not budge and actually got a bit higher even though I had flames in the box. It could quite possibly be that I just haven't got the hang of it all yet.

 

I agree. Since WS suggests at least a 15' system (and I'm assuming that is a 6" flue system straight-up without bends), it likely is not too much draft. It doesn't sound like you are over-firing although I will say that if your 650 stove-top temp is verified, that isn't something I would comfortable with all of the time either. Don't worry, we'll figure it out

 

I've seen everything your describing. I always let it do its thing and never had a problem. Infact, I'm happy to see it. More heat from the cat means your not sending btus up the chimney and your burning clean.

 

You'll get the hang of it, don't worry. I never used a wood stove until October, and I'm alright (most of the time )

I will say without a reliable temp gauge (I don't consider the supplied one super accurate, maybe ballpark), I suspect you are just fine concerning cat. Temperature. The cat always has an air supply (even if you close the air control all the way, as the cat has its own, dedicated air supply) so I would not focus so much on your magnetic thermometer on the front. The cat is going to do what it's going to do. I would recommend focusing on measuring when your flue gasses reach 500 degrees, this is when the cat needs to be engaged. How are you measuring that? After you have engaged the cat, slowly turn down the air control to where you think you'll need it. Cutting the air down should directly effect your stove top temperature. If it's cruising 650 and you don't' like that, turn the air control down to bring the stove top temp down. Yes, the extra gasses that result may cause your cat to get hotter for awhile, but so be it. That's how the stove was designed. That's why it has such a long burn time.

Also, I'll add that since the stove is new, your combuster is also nice and new and clean. It could be just a little overactive. Once it gets some burn time on it, it will probably settle down just a bit. I think the key to operating this stove is to have accurate temperature readings. You need accurate flue temp and stove top temps. A standard ir temp gauge is a good idea. You can shoot your single wall and get to 250, and engage the cat. Then you can monitor your stove top temps as well. Maybe you already have methods for this, but just throwing this all out there.

 

I appreciate everyone's replies. I think the best thing I could do at this point is to never, ever put a thermometer on the front face of the stove again! It just scares me! It is good to hear others say that they have seen the same though. Perhaps it is just the normal operating temp for the cat.
Another thing I am realizing is I need a better temp gauge. I am going to look into an ir gun i guess. I have been just moving the one that came with the stove all around.

I am going to try and just run it like my old tube stove once the cat is engaged like Brad said. Simple it down a bit. If it is running too hot, close the air some. Too cool, give it some air. Simple! We"ll see how that goes, and I will repot back.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

 

Put an IR gun on the surface when it's running. I guarantee its not actually that hot on the surface. Those things aren't the most accurate. I've found mine to be 100 degrees off at those temps.

 

Just a thought here and absolutely no insult or dismissive thoughts toward you at all but it does really sound like you and the stove are running just fine, and you are simply not used to such high spot temperatures of a cat. stove. ?? Put another way, all is well but you are miss- interpreting the behavior of the stove and thinking it is too hot when it is actually running perfectly. Per your post, the stove is running a long time and not consuming all the coals after 12 hours- this indicates to me that you are not anywhere near an overfired condition, at least not a sustained overfire.

My suggestion would be to get a true cat. probe thermometer, as well as a probe based flue thermometer. Watch both temperatures but expect to see cat. temps. in the 1,000F to 1,400F range commonly and understand that it is not only normal and expected but beneficial as it shows virtually all the waste smoke that the stove is producing is being properly burned so you get the heat and the chimney and air do not get the creosote / smoke. Also, the flue temps. are generally so low as to be really reassuring that all is perfect- my stove often runs flue temps. below 400F, which I consider excellent; it means I am getting virtually all the heat the wood is producing, and everything is running very efficiently and cleanly.

Again, just some thoughts that you might want to consider before trying to get the stove to behave in some other way- at least consider that the stove is working perfectly and you just need to get used to the data (temperatures) you are seeing and accept them as normal. Modern air- tight, cat. based stoves do behave quite a bit differently than older, 'fire boxes' but I find all of the differences to be good and beneficial rather than bad and to be avoided.

Brian

 

Should anyone running one of these EPA cat stoves have a cat prob and a flue prob? Where can we get them and how much?

 

Not needed but I think it is a good idea and will help the user run the stove better and more easily. Actually, the same applies to non- cat. based stoves also; I just do not think anyone can really get good to excellent performance and safety out of a woodstove without at least a flue thermometer but a flue and cat. or firebox thermometer are really better I think.

As to where to get them, simple, dial probe style thermometers are readily available; do a quick search using Google and the words 'stove thermometer probe'. The local wood stove store will probably have them although they may be more expensive than on- line from some place such as Amazon. For a bit more money, electronic versions are available that direct- read in degrees, are very accurate and extremely fast to respond; we would all like to think wood stoves take several minutes to respond to a draft change but in reality, it is only a few seconds if the device reading the temperature is quick to display the current temp.

I use a four- channel thermocouple display and recording device to use and monitor my woodstove. The device is around $125, then the thermocouples are anywhere between $10 and $40 each. Some would consider this expensive but after spending thousands of dollars for a stove, then hundreds to thousands of dollars for wood to fuel it, why not spend $200 or $300 to learn how it works and how to run it correctly and efficiently?

But certainly a cat. probe thermometer and a flue temp. probe thermometer will do the job IMO and are well worth the few dollars they cost..... especially if you learn how to not clog a chimney with creosote and especially, how not to set the chimeney creosote on fire afterwards (too high flue temps. is the cause of almost all chimney fires as far as I know).

Brian

 

BDF,
That thought has crossed my mind, and definitely no offense taken. I could quite possibly be seeing normal operation and I am just a bit paranoid about overfiring the stove. I am just not used to the kind of heat that cat throws! Incredible!
I do feel a bit silly saying " help my wood stove is too hot, how do I cool it down?" I guess more heat is what I wanted, and I sure am getting it!

 

I see you have a IS and I see Woodstock sells a cat prob for 30 bucks, wonder why they don't put them on standard if it mean that much, thanks for mentioning these. Does the ideal have a capped hole for the prob or did you have to modify the stove for a prob?

 

Can you provide make and model number on the display? If you've got a 4-line display, I'd rather do that than 4 stacked independent displays just to keep things looking a bit tidier.

 

Woodstock recommends simply installing a thermometer on single wall flue pipe and engaging the cat at 250 degrees. Everything else is extra that we use for personal preference.

 

Glad to help! I'm trying to pay it forward for all the help these kind folks gave me when I started asking questions last summer. The fact that you care so much about safety and good operating practices show you'll be just fine.

My ir thermometer has been a good friend while I was burning my first fires. Like you, I was afraid of over firing. With it, you can get an instant temp reading on any surface of your stove, and it will give you some peace. Definitely worth the $20 or so. Plus, you won't have to move your magnetic thermometer all over your stove and scratch the paint up!

Since I have double-wall stove pipe, I also have a probe thermometer about 18" up that tells me when it's time to engage the cat. Like others have said, measuring flue temp and stove top temp should be your minimum.