My "normal" shots are not anywhere near that close. I was overlooking a huge field, and the doe happened to come out right under me. Just a coincidence. I'm not that good at setting tree stand locations! Please don't get me wrong...lead has taken game effectively for a long, long, time. Technology, metalurgy (sp?), and the equipment used to test projectiles, and their effectiveness has improved since then, and so have the projectiles. 30 years ago, nobody was performing or youtubing penetration tests on hard surfaces, ballistic gel tests, etc. Now that the evidence is out there, IMO, there is no reason to be using anything but the best when taking an animal. As a hunter, I owe it to nature.
I agree about top quality bullets with centerfire rifles, as lead tends to fragment too much when you're talking 3000+ fps. But I don't think muzzleloaders have enough velocity for it to matter a whole lot, especially if you're pushing a heavy enough bullet. I still use solid lead "rifled slugs" in my 12ga, and I've never had a deer take a single step after being shot with either 7/8 oz or 1 oz slugs. That's why I preferred the heavy solid lead bullets for my muzzleloader, as it was about the same as a 7/8 oz slug. I'd argue that a heavy lead bullet is just as ethical as copper bullets, if not more so, at distances under 100 yards.
I have shot a wide variety of different projectiles from my 50cal Encore, usually over 120 to 130g "equivalent" loads (gun handles 150g). 50 cal ones as well as 45 / 44 cal "handgun" ones with appropriate sleeves. I actually prefer the 44 cal sleeved ones. Longer and narrower than the same weight 50 cal in theory gives better terminal ballistics. Really like the 265g 44 cal Hornady FTX/SST, but I've taken deer with WWII vintage 230g solid lead ball 45 pulled from some old GI ammo too!! As the old saying goes, shot placement is much more important than the specific bullet design. Those plastic sleeves keeps my barrel cleaner too versus lead/copper deposits.
I'll check it out. I've shot several deer with power belts out of my old CVA and the newer TC and never had to track a deer. 295g. hollow point with 100g. of powder. Schoondog
I personally have never had any problem with the Aerotip PowerBelts. I think the most "devastating" kill I ever had with a muzzleloader was with a 245g one on a 4 point at just over 100 yds. I shot it broad side, knocked it right off its feet sideways and it never moved. The powerbelt penetrated through the chest and embedded in the opposite shoulder. I've also shot a lot of these on paper and have never noticed any key-hole effect. I have some of the 295g ones too but I have never shot them yet. When I've gone "heavy", I've used some sleeved 300g Hornady XTP 44 cal bullets. You just have to try some different bullets with different propellant loads and see what works best. My Encore barrel's sweet spot seems to be in the 120g (84g BH209) area shooting 245-265g loads (120g is fine, this is a 150g "magnum" gun). Go lighter or heavier with the charge or projectile weight and the accuracy drops. Manufacturer's barrels are not all the same and the slightest variations in diameter, rifling, and twist rate make all the difference in the world over what's going to work best for you. My pet load might shoot like crap out of your baby.
Found all of my old muzzleloading stuff last night which included about a dozen 240gr T/C Shockwave sabots. I have 245gr Barnes Expander MZ's coming tomorrow. I think I have enough of the old ones to sight in and hunt with maybe.....if the sighting in goes well. Getting excited as I haven't been in the deer woods for so long.
Let us know what charge BH209 you end up settling on for those loads out of that gun. I was not familiar with that new LHR until I checked out its specs last night ......................... wow, looks really sweet!
Will do. Gonna start with 90gr by volume of the BH209 using Winchester W209 primers. Max load for BH209 in this gun is 120gr by volume. Pryodex or 777 mas is 150gr. This stuff must burn hotter/faster.
Shot the new muzzleloader today with mixed results. I started with 90gr of the BH209 under the old TC Shockwaves to get me on the paper at 50 yards. Worked my way out to 100 yards and switch to the new Barnes Spitfire MZ 245gr bullets (ran out of the old TC Shockwaves). Grouping was inconsistent with no pattern. I worked my way up to 100gr of powder and didn't see an improvement. I was using this new Lead Sled Solo I just got, and frankly I just didn't get along with it. It seemed difficult to get in behind the gun comfortably. Maybe that is part or all of my problem. I kind of feel like I should try a lower powder charge....or heavier bullet, though. I didn't feel like I squeezed an flyers.....everything felt fine. I just think it was zinging them all over about a 4" - 5" pattern. That's way too much. What do you think? Try a 300gr Expander maybe?
Yeah, I would first try 85 and 80g shots with the 245g just for the heck of it. If no better then I would try a heavier bullet. That barrel has the "inline standard" 1 in 28 RH twist, there ought to be a sweet spot that will do better than 4-5". Did the couple Shockwaves at 100 yds do any better? Don't rule out a bad new scope either! I had a new scope that was giving me fits trying to get it sighted in, I knew the load would shoot better than what I was getting based on using the previous old scope. I finally figured out that the reticule was loose internally and was moving the slightest bit! Unfortunately, you don't have any standard/control to compare with your new baby.
The same inconsistency existed with the Shockwaves also. They loaded into the barrel easier and the Spitfires were really snug. I ordered up some Crush Rib sabots and a couple of different bullets. I guess the Spitfire is a boat tail design and they can be difficult in a muzzleloader? I wish I had read that before buying them! The scope all seems fine....I don't notice anything moving...all is still tight. But I will keep an eye on things. Updates to come.
It may be worth mounting that scope onto something else that is easier and cheaper to shoot, and that you know is accurate. Don't worry about the location vs aim point, but note the ability to group. It should also be a shotgun or large caliber rifle with similar recoil to the muzzleloader. If the group is not consistent with the guns prior ability, you know the scope is the culprit. With everything I have read on this thread, the scope seems as likely the issue as the ammo.
I never noticed the reticule move on my bad new scope while shooting, the overall recoil and movement obscures it. However, if I looked through it and gave the scope just a gentle tap with a pencil/pen I saw the reticule vibrate.
Success!! The Harvester Crush Rib sabots and Scorpion PT Gold bullets are deer slayers.....as is the same sabot with the Barnes Expander MZ. Time to shoot the barrel in a little more....extend my range....and go hunting.
