whats fair? Warranty work on a stove we didnt sell......

That assumes they have friends.
and friends that burn

 

Generally, one doesn't stay in business long working at a loss, even IF you can write it off, at the end of the year, ya still gots nothin'!

 

we pretty much know what the manufacturer will and wont cover, and have NEVER been left in the lurch there.....we know the warranties, how it works, the exclusions (and inclusions). We always get paid our $55 from the manufacturer! So, there is no need to call the manufacturer to check and see if something is covered, but its really the responsibility of the retailer to do all warranty work on units that THEY THEMSELVES SELL. I am not obligated in any way to service units we didn't sell.
Please note that this covers only warranty work. For regular service work, we are happy to do the work....cleanings, repairs, etc....usually can make money on that. This thread really only was meant to cover those money-losing warranty calls.....

 

There are "good will" and lost leaders, but in the end, you still have to pay the light bill or they get turned off. Charge what you need to, but I wouldn't turn them away unless you can see that the job isn't your cup of tea.

 

its not that the customer is rejected, its more often that the other dealer is actually charging a service charge to fix under-warranty units that they sold.....sometimes up to $150 or so, which is ridiculous, given they are obligated to do the work anyhow. So, the customer looks for someone to do the work who wont charge them....which we don't, if we sold the unit!
These things don't often break in the summer, usually during the fall/winter, and its all we can do to cover our own folks, let alone the other guy, who basically forces his own customers to look for other repair folks by charging crazy "diagnosis fees", "travel fees", etc, on units they sold and are still under warranty! Complain to the manufacturer? Good luck- goes nowhere.

 

true, but you can "good will" yourself out of business as well. If you don't value your time, no one else will either. And yes, sometimes there are jobs you just KNOW aren't safe, or way over the consumer's budget, or you simply don't have time for at that point in time. Usually best to bow out, and maybe suggest others who would be better suited to do the work.

 

Oh, I didn't mean that you'd check whether the manufacturer would pay the $55 you expect, I meant you'd "check," even though you pretty much know the answer, whether the manufacturer will pay the actual cost of the work. Because it seems obvious that $55 doesn't cover it. The fact that the amount the manufacturer is willing to pay doesn't actually cover the cost of doing the repairs is a choice the manufacturer is consciously making, and they ought to bear the consequences (e.g. bad online reviews) of that choice.

I get that the customers who come to you with this kind of problem feel, quite reasonably, like they're getting screwed. Unless and until the manufacturer pays the actual cost of the repairs, *someone* is getting screwed, and it shouldn't be you any more than it should be the customer. That's not to say that you need to be paid immediately and directly; if the good will you garner by taking losing jobs is worth it in the long run then maybe you are getting paid, eventually and indirectly. It sounds like you don't think that's typically the case, which is why I suggested what I did.

 

the argument the manufacturer uses is that some part of the actual money from the sale of the unit covers the underage that the occasional warranty job doesn't cover, if that makes sense. So, if I sell a unit, and maybe 1 unit in say 20 has a warranty issue, part of my profit from them is to cover what the warranty reimbursement woefully does not. So, if I don't sell the unit, well, you get the picture.

Its very rare when the manufacturer will pay over and above the $55 figure though. In some cases, the repair is pretty involved, and we can finagle more. In some cases the manufacturer requests we fix it, as the homeowner and the original dealer have gotten at odds, and the homeowner wont let them in again (I don't like these....means we have to fix a unit we didn't sell, AND possibly correct installation issues as well)...in this case we can request extra for, say, the travel time.

Suffice to say though, that stoves are not like cars. In most cases, the original selling dealer is the only one obligated to do the repairs. Some stove companies don't require the dealer to fix a thing(Big Boxes) , as they lack any kind of technical know-how in how to do it, and they deal with the end users, many of whom are more than happy to do the work themselves. They also have generous return policies. You wouldn't believe how many units we sell after folks have returned those units, but that's a story for another time......

Thanks for the input, all!

 

As a customer who owns two Harman stoves, this topic hits home with me. Here's my $0.02.

The fact that you have to question whether to perform warranty service on a unit based on whether you sold it or not is bothersome. This whole thing speaks volumes about the quality of the HHT warranty as well as the overall level of brand loyalty Harman's retailers have for the products they sell. What is a customer to do when the dealer they bought from goes out of business or closes their doors, leaving them flapping in the breeze?

I equate this to buying a new car (with warranty) from dealer A and bringing it to dealer B for service and them telling you "Nope, we're not going to perform warranty service on your car because you didn't buy it from us." Seriously? Is there no brand integrity left? I wouldn't feel this strongly about it if we were talking about a relatively low dollar item, but these stoves cost thousands of dollars, which for me is close enough to buying a car. BTW, I have seen a couple references here to car dealers not honoring warranties for cars sold by other dealers? E.G. Buy a Toyota a Boch and bring it to Acton and they will turn you away? Not on your life, that has never been my experience at any car dealer, within the same brand family!

At the time of purchase, all you hear about is how Harman has the best warranty in the industry and it's all puppy dogs and rainbows and happy time. What the dealer doesn't tell you until after you drop $thousands, is that Harman doesn't compensate them sufficiently to provide warranty service so the dealers are free to charge whatever they feel like to fix anything that ever goes wrong with your stove, whether it's in the warranty period or not. Oh, and don't bother calling a different dealer because there's about zero chance they will help you. No, that's dirty laundry you only find out about the first time you have a problem with your stove and unexpectedly have to shell out even more $$$ to fix that $thousands unit with the best warranty in the industry.

I don't mean to point this at you LW. I had a bad Harman warranty experience the day my P68 was installed brand new and I guess I'm still a little bitter over it. My dealer likes to tip me upside down and shake all the money out of my pockets. On the other hand, I have a friend who bought his stove from another dealer relatively close by, and has had numerous service calls and never been charged a penny. It would truly benefit HHT to improve dealer funding and standardize the warranty service process, so all of their customers receive a consistent experience, no matter which authorized dealer services their stove. Given the prices their products command, they can certainly afford to.

 

question??

are there so many warranty calls that this is a big issue???? I am thinking with the amount of stoves out there, this should be a small number or is it customers not understanding how to use the stove?
if that many stoves are failing, IMO there are bigger issues.

I get zero reimbursement from Manufacturers, so 55 dollars looks good to me.

 

A good post. I'll try to explain it from the other side of the fence.

Most Harman dealers do in fact, have quite a bit of brand loyalty. In answer to the first paragraph, what happens if a dealer goes out of business? Basically, the claim ends up being assigned to a neighboring dealer, and special dispensations are made to cover travel expenses to the new customer....it works pretty well, really. We had a competing dealer a couple towns away, guy sold units, ended up he couldn't pay his bills (maybe did free work?), and ended up going out of business. Folks who bought units, after failing to contact the original dealer, called Harman, Harman called us, and it gets done.

Once again, the car analogy. As I said, it really doesn't apply here, as car warranty work is NEVER done at your home. The onus is upon you to get the car to whatever dealer you choose to do the work. As part of the Dealer Agreement, car dealers typically have to do warranty work, even from cars sold at competing dealers. Thing is, it simply costs money to buy, insure, and stock a service van as well as keep it fueled. It costs money to have a technician drive to someone's home. So, if, say, it takes an hour to get to the customers' place (common), takes an hour to replace the part, and takes an hour to get back, does $55 cover that? I don't think it even comes close. Don't forget, we don't sell and service stoves as philanthropists, we do it to make money. If we don't, we aren't here long. I guess one way around that is to tell the customer to bring the unit to us, but really, how many folks have the wherewithal to disconnect, remove from their home, and deliver a 400 lb. stove? I know a lot of you guys do, but the majority of folks don't. We have a few folks who have done it, but I can count them on one hand.

We cant control what other deals do/say/charge, and to paint all dealers with the same broad brush I feel is unfair. We service what we sell. If your unit is under warranty, and we sold it, we do the warranty work as well, no charge to you.....no travel time, no parts charge, etc. Now, if its NOT under warranty, you pay. Say your stove wont feed, its only 18 months old. Since you are stellar in your cleaning regimen (you think.....heck, I take the ashes out, right?), it MUST be a broken component, right? We get out there, and find out that your stove isn't running because you do a lousy job of cleaning. That's gonna be a charge. We vet our customers and don't sell units out of the area in which we service...its pretty simple.

As for WARRANTY units we didn't sell, we recommend you go to the original dealer. Sometimes they don't want the dealer back.....in those cases we try to get special dispensations from Harman. If its not sold by us, and not under warranty, heck yea, we'll service their unit! The problem with other units from other dealers, especially under warranty, is that after working on the unit, YOU OWN THAT UNIT, liability-wise. Issues in installation? You have to fix that.

As for your P68, ttdberg, I've no idea what your issue was. But the day it was installed? Shoulda been covered by the dealer, no question (unless it was some self-install dealio issue). Its been said here a million times, and you allude to that in your last paragraph, its certainly VERY important where you get your unit from. Talk to friends, relatives, peruse the forums, like at www.firewoodhoardersclub.com , look for members in your area, throw them a fast message, see what they say. The cheapest price isn't always the best deal.

 

in stove work, as in life, there are always grey areas, Wild. Generally speaking, I like to support people who support me. If youre not local, haven't supported me by buying pellets or your stove from me, well........

 

When I originally posted this (first post), I said it was "once and awhile". I don't know what you do, ironpony, so cant really equate anything to your situation. Frankly, its not usually a stove failure, but rather cleaning or misunderstanding on how to run the unit. Not everyone is a perfect candidate for a stove.

 

I feel that Harman or any other stove manufacturer should clearly lay out what there warranty is and how to get service. Both the customer and the service providers need to adhere to the conditions and none of this BUT stuff. What good is a warranty if it is subjectively interpreted. The warranty should protect both the buyer and the service centers. I have a Harman. I paid top dollar for it. For that I anticipate good performance and warranty service as in their manual. I don't recall that there is a restriction to where I bought it. If that is the case, it needs to be stated in writing. When my brother was selling cell phones and there was a customer issue, the cell phone company would short his next payment to cover their losses. He only got to keep the profit from the sale if the customer didn't default on their monthly payments.

 

Below is a link to the current warranty-

http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/P43_61A_68_O.pdf

page 5, under WARRANTY CONDITIONS, bullet points 4 & 5:

• Contact your installing dealer for warranty service. If the installing dealer is unable to provide necessary parts, contact
the nearest HHT authorized dealer or supplier. Additional service fees may apply if you are seeking warranty service
from a dealer other than the dealer from whom you originally purchased the product.
• Check with your dealer in advance for any costs to you when arranging a warranty call. Travel and shipping charges
for parts are not covered by this warranty.

When you buy anything, you also buy the warranty. Should be read when the unit is being researched, not afterwards. Its fairly straightforward when you read it.

I never meant this to be a pi$$ing match tho, and not wanting to make it personal either, So, this in no way is meant to be a slam to the folks above who are unhappy with their dealer, stove, or warranty!

 

if it is once in a while look at it as advertising expense. if it is customer neglect educate them. my situation is totally different and is not apples to apples comparison.