Who is ultimately responsible for engine failure? (ethanol)

This is a hypothetical story, as so far, my saw runs perfectly fine, but I have always wondered about this. I have a question, sort of, who is ultimately responsible for a chainsaw engine that fails while under warranty?

I have just bought a new Husqvarna chainsaw and purchased the three cans of fuel to increase the warranty to 4 years (yes, I realize that the warranty isn't worth the paper it's printed on). Looking through the buyer reviews on the Husqvarna website, anyone who complained about the engine failing due to scoring of the piston or cylinder was essentially told, by an employee of Husqvarna, that it was their fault that they missused the saw due to using ethynol fuel (even if they used the proper fuel/oil mix ratio) and the person should have used ethynol free fuel or the “canned” gas they sell, hence why they promote the use of said fuel to double the warranty I assume. Now using those reviews as a guide for my question:

If, after using the canned gas, lets say I go to the dealer and purchase Husqvarna 2 stroke oil, then go to the nearest gas station and get a gallon of regular gas, that, of course, has ethynol content. I then mix a container of oil into the gas and then fill up my chainsaw with the requred 50:1 gas/oil mix. I then use the saw and after a half hour, or so of cutting, I shut the saw off. When I go to restart the saw, it won't start and the pull-start seems very easy to pull (little or no compression). So I take the saw to the dealer and he says that because the engine is scored (or some other mechanical issue) it isn't covered under warranty and he (and Husqvarna) determine it's my fault for using ethynol gas, even though all gas up here (as far as I know) has ethynol content, regular or premium gas.

However, I had used all the proper oil/gas amounts, and properly maintained the saw etc. So again, who is at fault? Is it because the saw maunufacturer produced the saw to run only in very strict conditions and that even being off a tea-spoon or so of oil either way would cause catistrophic damage? Or is it the one who forced Husqvarna (or Stihl, Echo, Dolmar...) to such strict conditions? Or, is it my fault for using ethynol gas in the first place? Again, I had followed all the instructions in the manual and used proper gas and oil and the gas had (presumably) 10% or less ethynol, still allowed in the manual. After following all instructions, the saw engine still failed. Was it because of ethynol gas? If that were the case, then virtually all 2 stroke engines would fail, and we would be inundated with people screaming about engine failures and companies not honoring warranties on said items.

But who forced the gas staions to carry ethynol gas and who is the one who is the underlying cause of all this crap in the first place?

So when I buy my saw,

1 – I'm forced to buy ethynol gas (or pay outragious amounts for specialized fuels), even though it supposedly causes damage to engines.
2 – I can't adjust the carburetor because of some arbitrary ruling from some government agency which results in my saw running too lean from the factory, thereby causing the engine to run too hot, and potentially fail if run even very slightly outside of the set parameters.

I should think that if all the people who purchased equipment and who followed proper procedures, had their equipment still fail because of using inferior, or faulty gas (ethynol) then maybe a class action suit could be launched against 1/ the gas companies (for using ethynol), 2/ the equipment manufacturers (for not allowing proper carb adjustment and having the settings to lean) and 3/ the one who I think is most responsible, the EPA for forcing all this in the first place. Or is it very rare that ethynol is the exact cause of engine failure, and that it is most likely user error after all?

 

Ethanol is a scam. It is not good for the environment, as claimed. It is all about the money. Special interest groups lined the pockets of some powerful politicians to pass the ethanol legislation. It's just like everything else, it's all about the money.

 

Good question, wonder what Husqvrana would say if you posed this question to them. Might be interesting.
Gary

 

Kinda wondering the same. Bought a new poulan 5020. Been using "canned gas" till recently. Kinda scared to use pump gas. Anyone know of stations to get low or no eythanol. I know it maybe impossible just asking.

 

Posted on their own site....

http://husqvarna.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1199/kw/fuel/session/L3RpbWUvMTQzMzAzNzM1MS9zaWQvQWlSYUhHbm0=

Shouldn't be any question about warranty in my mind. They even say that almost all US gas has ethanol, therefore unavoidable. And they only recommend mid grade fuel.

 

E10 is ok. Just don't use any more than 10% ethanol, aka e10.

It's overblown, the whole issue of ethanol.
I won't repost what I've said several times, but search ethanol under my username.

I've got a ton of experience with using e10 in all sorts of small engines, 2 and 4 stroke. I've never had an issue, but you have to be a little careful if it's stored longer than 2 months or more.

 

I'm sure ethanol can cause problems, but I've yet to have a single issue with any of my saws over the past 5 years using ethanol gas, and they get quite a bit of use. That said, I use the marine stabil always (not sure if that really is any better than the red type), and I always run my saws dry after use - it's been working for me so far. I've always assumed the Stihl and Husq extended warrantee for buying extra oil or mix must be a gimmick and that if a real engine failure happened down the road it would be pulling teeth to get a fix - but....I don't buy new saws, so haven't had to find out! Cheers!

 

We've had e10 here in Wisconsin for over 20 years, no issues really, just items like fuel line on my 30 yr old boat. My new in 2000 stihl 029 super has not seen e free fuel until this year, with some canned premix since I wanted to try it and I wanted some small gas tanks to carry in the woods.

 

I go to mills fleet farm, they have 87 octane with e10, that goes in every vehicle I own, then there's the 89 &91 octane, no ethanol. I use the highest on all small engines, 2 or 4 stroke. (I'm pretty sure it's 91 don't quote me)When I get gas for the small engines I start the pump, put two gallons high octane no ethanol gas into my vehicle and the rest into my small engine jugs, especially when mixing gas for the saws and other 2 strokes. Haven't had any problems, not saying you will just saying what I do

 

What did the warranty say? Not the people working but the warranty itself, paper trumps word of mouth. If the warranty itself does not specify it's there fault for creating grey areas, In the case that the warranty does not specify I would check the manual if it says either or I would hold any argument to that, if the place you bought it from doesn't help I would contact the maker of the saw. Lastly the part about the availability of the fuel, it's going to come down to your fault, because they have caned fuel available for 8 times the price. Also I use husqvarna XP 2 stroke oil mix, I have no warranty on my 20 year old saw I got from my dad or the saw I got off Craig'slist but xp oil mix might help back you up as well.

 

Husky warranty sez 89 octane e10 is OK.

Don't worry about it, if it goes, and they won't fix it despite you doing as you were told, I have a feeling some kind soul on FHC will rebuild it.

 

I have been running my Poulan 5020av on regular gas (with 10% ethanol) for a little over a year, and maybe 15 cords cut. I figured it was OK, because the manual says it is.

Then it quit running.

The problem was that the fuel line inside the tank collapsed on itself. After I replaced that, it runs fine again. But, it will never see ethanol again.

There are web sites which track gas stations where you can get ethanol free fuel, for example buyrealgas.com or pure-gas.org.

Greg

 

I use only Stihl motomix in my saws,weed eater,blower.have had no problems.

 

Keep in mind, that if the gas station is a chain, and a tanker rolls up with e10, that they have to take it. It doesn't matter if the station is on the e free site.

Plan that all gas has 10% ethanol, and you'll be fine.

 

This is one of the only easy ways to ensure there's no ethanol in your saw.

 

I agree that it shouldn't have a bearing on warranty claims as they say that ethanol (I had typed in ethynol before but my stupid word processor (LibreOffice) didn't flag it). However, going to the U.S. Husqvarna site, they have a "tech" who, for every negative review dealing with engine failure, scolds and blames the operator as the cause of the failure and says that it is the use of ethanol gas that will cause engine failure. That, by itself, could be a concern, even though he may be just talking through his @$$, but still I hope that that is not the official Husqvarna position.

 

Maybe that tech is the "gatekeeper"?

For everyone he deters from getting warranty $ involved, it saves husky money.

If that's the case, its shady, but I wouldn't be shocked.

 

Actually, I really don't use my saw that much and for what I use it for, an electric probably would have been enough. So I will probably use the canned gas and not worry about ethanol. Short term storage is generally considered less than a year and I use it every month or so, especially in the fall, when I have to trim my wood blocks to fit in my dinky-toy stove.

edit: Oh, and on a completely different note, I read on a forum (can't remember where, so my apologies to the author) that to adjust the carb screws on a newish Poulan, just take the tip and ink refill out of a BIC pen and it fits perfectly over the splined screws.

 

I tried that and some other creative ideas, in the end I bought the tool on ebay for about 7 bucks.

Greg