Advice on Stove sizing

This is something I have been spending a lot of time debating in my head so I thought I would open a whole new can of worms by asking for advice here. Our house is a small cape built around 1950 2X4 walls with blown in insulation from what I can tell and fiberglass between the rafters. The above grade area is 1000 sq ft (story and a half configuration) and there is another close to 700 sq ft in the basement, half of which is finished (and sort of insulated).

Currently we have a Jotul F3 CB located in the back corner of the house.


The location is not ideal to say the least. Our plans are to move the stove into the living room either on the wall with the stairs (not ideal, need to do some offset stuff with the chimney to avoid a dormer on the second story) or the wall across from that one which butts up to the bedroom. I am leaning towards the second location mentioned there. In addition to this we are planning to open up a window about 6' wide between the kitchen and living room to connect the spaces and improve airflow. Most of our time is spent in the Kitchen/livingroom areas. The half of the basement that is finished would be nice to be able to use more this time of year but I think trying to get heat down there from the first floor may be asking a lot.

Last year keeping the thermostat lower than what most people would likely find comfortable (55-62 depending on whether we were home or not) we burnt about a two cords of wood and used about 110 gallons of oil. So far this year we've used about a cord and a half of wood and I'm not sure on the oil (need to check the tank, it's been getting used more with these lovely -15 mornings we've been having).

My goal would be to heat the house to closer to 70 and be able to rely on wood more through the day. Currently the F# can get the temp up, but it takes a long time and frequent reloads (just over 1 cu ft firebox). If it's not too cold I've gotten the house up to 68-70 where I'd like it but only on a Saturday when I'm there all day and can keep feeding the stove. I want something I can load up in the morning have it burn all day while we are at work and come home to a reasonably warm house.

I am leaning very heavily towards a Woodstock hybrid stove, the Progress, Ideal Steel or the new Franklin they are working on. I like the price point on the Ideal Steel better than the Progress but an not necessarily in love with the looks, however I think we could come up with something that would work for us. However the 3.2 cu ft firebox seems gigantic and I'm wondering if it is overkill for our house. The progress seems a little more reasonably sized but I'm not crazy about the price and the added weight is a little concerning. The Franklin seems like the perfect solution size wise but there are still a lot of unknowns about what the final product will be. I'm also not a big fan of the "Franklin Stove" look but the plain basic version helps with that unless it becomes what my wife calls a "cat crematory" in which case she is going to veto it.

I know that is a lot there but I would be interested to hear people's honest opinions.

 

My first thought is go bigger than you need rather than smaller. You can build a small fire in a big stove or cut the air back for a longer burn

 

Oh . And welcome to the site W
Your gonna like it here

 

Are you going to keep the Jotul too? If so, I'd consider having a stove in the basement along with one against that liv room wall/bedroom. You would then be able to learn when you needed the added heat of both, but not all the time. Shoulder seasons, I'll bet you'd get away with just the stove in the basement many days. Ductwork in the basement is also possible for better upstairs circulation. All kinds of possibilities.

 

If the ad says for 1k sq ft buy the next size up stove.

 

Ultimately I'd like to put a stove in the basement as well, but I'm not sure it is practical to do that at this point. With the oil furnace and tank I'm not really sure I want a wood stove in the same space and then I'd have to get a chimney down there as well. I was thinking of putting some heat pumps in to replace the oil for a "backup" heat source but I'm not sure that is going to make financial sense at the moment (even with the rebates being offered).

The issue I am looking at with the fireview is the rear clearance, even with a heat shield WS lists it as 18". It's more the "right size" but will end up taking up more space in the room than the IS or Progress and theoretically the Franklin.

 

Just did a little more digging in the fireview manual and it looks like with a wall mounted heat shield clearance can be reduced to 12" which makes it much more of an option for us.

 

Whoa, that's a detailed illustration you put together. The verbiage, I can't read due to beer goggles. However, having owned a monster smoke dragon, a small EPA tube stove, a large EPA tube stove and now and Ideal Steel, my experience has been that the Ideal will do what ever you ask of it. If you want low and slow during the chilly fall months, no problem......If you want crankin heat in the depths of winter, no problem. This stove is the Ron Popeil Showtime Rotisserie & BBQ: you just set it and forget it.

 

If you really enjoy the firewood experience, then maybe a 2 stove set-up would be good. Only you can know, in your gut, whether wood heat is what you really want to do. Positives and negatives.

 

The Fireview sits further into the room on the hearth pad than the Progress Hybrid, but the Progress Hybrid needs more clearance in front. The two require exactly the same hearth pad, when you rear vent the FIreview (only option) and top vent the Progress Hybrid (configuration which puts each stove as close to the wall as possible). So, get the stove that will work better for your situation, the hearth requirement is the same.

 

Still debating this, we've decided that we're going to make a trip up to woodstock in the middle of march to see these in person.

The thing that I keep wondering is what the difference in operational capability is going to be between say a fireview (and maybe even a keystone, not sure that is going to give us enough usable heat on a low burn) and the ideal steel is going to be. I'm reading some threads with people talking about very long low burns in the ideal steel and while I don't need a 24 hour burn it would be cool once or twice lol.

What are the realistic low burn capabilities of the fireview? If the high is under 20 can I expect it to keep the temperature in the high 60's all day while I'm at work or overnight (how about a keystone)? I suspect the answer to that is yes but I guess what I worry about is if I am giving a lot of performance by not going with a more recent model.

 

I would definitely go larger than the F3.

In regards to the low burn ability of the Fireview; It is a very controllable stove.

This depends more on your home's ability to retain heat. Meaning; how truly insulated is your home. I'm in a 2150 sq ft home and I have three stoves, all of which are larger than the Fireview, that I need to heat my home properly. That is due to the layout, insulation challenges, and draftiness of this old house.

Not sure what you mean. the stoves you are looking at ARE recent models. You just need to determine which size will best meet your needs for you, your home, and your location.

 

Best advice I can give you, sine you are going to be there in person, is take at least a rough floorplan of your home with you, and ask Woodstock for their advice. They will be honest with you, and will know better than any of us, which stoves will meet your requirements and desires. Then, you can choose which you prefer amongst those.

Hope you have good weather to enjoy your drive. I know you'll enjoy your visit! If you are like me, your problem will be coming away with only one stove. I had a hard time choosing. One advantage of being there is that you can choose your soapstone, so take a good look at the soapstone that is available, ask some questions, and pick the stone that most appeals to you. If it is not available in a stove while there ( and I believe they are pretty backlogged), they will watch for similar stone for you as they approach your production date.

 

I think the Progress would run you out of the house. The FV or IS would be much better fits, especially for your layout. I tried heating 2300 sq feet with the FV, it just was not enough. I'll bet with only 1000 sq feet it would be fine. The burn times won't be as long as the IS, but you should easily get 8-10 hrs. The trick is DRY WOOD.

I'm not sure how to compare the IS to the FV. The IS would have a longer potential burn time, and be a more capable heater, you should talk to WS about this. I lean towards the FV over the IS simply because I owned that stove and really liked it, but I have owned 3 WS stoves and really liked them all.

I would not recommend the Keystone as a primary heater. It has a smaller firebox than the FV (enough to make a difference) and will have lower burn times - especially in your climate. The Keystone has an AWESOME ash grate system - which the FV does not have. Ever since I have switched to stoves with ash grates, I can't imagine not having one - but others disagree. The IS does have that option.

You mentioned adding a 6' window between the kitchen and LR "to connect the spaces and improve airflow". Why the window, why not just open up the space completely from ceiling to floor and skip the window? It will do wonders to improve airflow in the rest of the house, and make the area seem much larger. We have a 10' wide opening connecting the Family Room (with the stove) and Kitchen, it's amazing how it helps to heat the rest of the house since the warm air has a better chance to move around.

 

The question is not put to me, but I'll answer. You can put a window in and not loose counter space or cabinet space.

My kitchen was not designed to have a window, but we lived in the home summers when the children were little, without finished walls (only studding on interior walls). I loved being in the kitchen (South side of home) and being able to see North toward the lake. Also could communicate with people at the table, and keep an eye on the children at the table while I was in the kitchen. So, before we closed the walls, I framed a window between the kitchen and dining room. Some winters I sit a small fan on the sill blowing toward the front of the home (where the stove is).

 

Thanks for the info on the different stoves, it's very helpful. The floor plan I posted is very close but there are a couple little details missing from it that play into why we are looking at a window and not just taking out the wall. First there are two arched doorways between the kitchen and the hall and the living room and the hall, I'm in favor of just opening it all up, but my wife likes the arches (almost looks like the door on the fireview so they might work well together. The second reason is that we have low ceilings, 7' 6" making putting in a beam to support the second floor difficult. Not out of the question but a lot more work than just opening up a 6' window.

 

Ok quick question, what are people's impression of the BTU numbers advertised by stove manufacturers? The other day I was home and was able to keep the F3 running hot (450-650 stove top) all day. Over about 8 hours it raised the temp in the house from 63 to 69 in the living room (stove is currently in a back room). High temp was around 20 that day.

I did some digging and found that the EPA numbers for the F3 CB (11400-43500) and the Fireview (10900-42900) are pretty close (source: http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2013-08/documents/certifiedwood.pdf)

This has me wondering if despite the larger firebox the actual heat output is not going to be much of a step up with the Fireview.

 

BTU rating are usually ignored as sales hype. Stove size (cuft) is a much better indicator of available BTU's.

The Fireview will easily do this without you being home reload it. Every day and every night.

I don't think there will be any comparison to the heat output of these two stoves. One is much larger and has a cat (and soapstone) to level out the temperature swings and give nice long steady burns. I'm not knocking the F3, I'm sure it does well for a very small tube stove.