On a tractor forum that I read the topic of creosote and far wood came up yesterday. The thread I think was directed toward me and a few others since there aren't many on there that burn wood. Anyways, long story short, the OP is a fire wood seller from out in the Ohio area and after I brought up the deal about moisture content in farwood he is going to by a meter and has had a talk with a fellow wood seller in his area about doing the same and selling truly seasoned wood. Now listen up. This guy is a good guy and works his azz off and would never screw anyone on a wood purchase but like a lot of old school wood mongers seasoned wood means seasoned on the trailer from the woods to the splitter and to your door step. My question to you that buy wood is this. If a seller like my friend would take the time and effort to sell wood to you that was truly "seasoned" like we know it should be and could prove it at the time of your purchase of said wood, would it be worth more money to you rather than taking your chances on unknown stuff? And, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? Would you know?
Definitely. I've bought many cords of "seasoned" wood over the last few years. Guess what, only say 3 of those cords were actually dry. I'd pay more for a known quality wood. That said. FHC has me working on the 3 year plan, so I shouldn't need to buy seasoned wood.
I guess if I couldn't c/s/s my own wood I would pay a small premium for wood that was guaranteed seasoned. Or I think I would just buy the wood 1-2 years in advance and stockpile it. Seasoning is just planning/waiting till the time is right.
How about just paying less for the wood that isn't seasoned. Many sellers here have two prices. Green and seasoned and there can often (not all, of course) be an awful large grey area between the two where contentions exist. A MM in theory identifies what you've got for sale. Either you've got what you're advertising or you don't. It would be fairly easy to be selling mixed hardwood or even mixed green and seasoned and test a dry split at delivery and grab a seasoned piece to misrepresent the whole load as seasoned . At least to those that don't know better. If you've got seasoned wood you should be selling it at what the market will bear.
I think those who sell truly seasoned wood are much more likely to get repeat customers who are willing to pay a bit of a premium for wood that is a known quantity. Customers who get "seasoned wood" that isn't generally just go to a new supplier the next year and get screwed again. And here is my answer to your second question.
I know when I have had to buy wood I took my time and searched out truly seasoned wood... and in my area that is hard to do. I see a lot of Craigslist adds for "dry seasoned" wood... only to call on it and find out they are just splitting it... or it was "seasoned in the log"... or my favorite was "well it was dry until it got snow on it, but now I'd guess it to be over 30% moisture content... do you have a moisture meter... well no I go by looks" if you have green wood just say so. I've got a guy I buy wood from, it's a 2 hr drive one way for me to get it, but he advertised his moisture content and species of wood... and had no problem with me splitting and testing splits to check it. I paid a little more for it then I wanted to, but was well worth it in the end. My biggest gripe with most wood sellers, is how the sell the wood... by Iowa law all firewood must be sold by the cord... but most is by the "truck load"... not really fare to the guy in a Toyota or Chevy S-10... I actually had a wood seller get pizzed at me when I showed up in my dodge 3500, and refused to fill the truck full for his advertised price for a truck load. And don't get me started on the over priced little plastic wrapped bundles of wood at the gas station. I would and have, paid more to the guy that knows his product and stands by it! ~Nathan
Because this subject comes up often enough and the only folks that really know what they're doing are the educated burners, it's a toss up in my opinion. If I was desperate and needed seasoned wood I would make sure the seller knew on the phone prior to him making the trip out. When he got here I would randomly test several pieces to make sure the wood was dry. I'm paying a premium for it, that's what should be delivered. Other than being in a desperate situation and needing seasoned wood I would not look for it dry, I would buy it green and season it myself. That way I can control the drying process and the cost of the materials and labor and keep it at a minimum.
I went from buying all my firewood when I started a few years ago to trying to scrounge it all to now buying most and scrounging some. (Time constraints and lack of proper equipment are my main reasons for that, though I LOVE splitting wood). I've determined that the best way is to buy green in advance for the year or 2 ahead and then pick up whatever I can scrounge along the way. To the OP's original question if I needed wood to burn now, I'd DEF pay a premium to get truly seasoned wood, but I fear the typical uneducated firewood buyer would scoff at it and buy the cheaper, green stuff someone claims is seasoned from the next guy...
Bill... good point on the uneducated "it's wood it will burn" crowd... might be to the sellers advantage to stock both green and seasoned... could always throw in a stove full or two of truly seasoned wood to try to educate the green burners and get them to step up to buying seasoned or buying ahead.... but could also be like teaching a pig to skate. ~Nathan
Yes. Like everything in life it's finding someone that has passion for what they do. Processing firewood is hard work. Most seller gather in the spring and try to sell out by fall. If you can find sellers that have at least a 2-3 year supply of c/s/s I would buy from them. Local guy here will deliver rounds that he cut in the morning. So I feel it is up to the buyer to season their bought wood. Local supplier is a good guy works hard and is makin a living. He doesn't advertise seasoned wood. I know what I am getting.
This is the problem. Plenty of people would pay "a bit of a premium," but getting wood to that point takes more than "a bit" of additional resources; it takes moving the wood around, stacking it and storing it for a year or more. The wood shrinks, some is lost to bugs or rot, and as it becomes more valuable some might be lost to theft. For a seller to make enough to be worth the trouble, I'd bet he'd have to at least double the price of green stuff. I was really mad when I was new at this and bought "seasoned" wood that turned out to be 40% MC (at best), but I've since developed some sympathy for the devil.
I sold some last year, advertised on craigslist as 'truly dry firewood'. I got a premium for it, $100/face cord (Michigan ) picked up, and I delivered some about twenty minutes away for $120. I didn't sell much, I think to six different people, but every single one called me this fall for more. Well, except for one. He texted all summer, and I kept putting him off and telling him I didn't have any to spare. I just started ignoring him, and he's finally left me alone. Considering you can buy it for $50-60 all day around here, I didn't do too bad.
Would I pay more for truly seasoned firewood? NO! Is there a market out there for the same? Yes, however, it is a specialty/smaller market I feel. Once you get right down to it, the seller is only "storing" the wood for you until you need it (giving it time to season) and this is what the extra costs would be for. There have been a number of members that have confessed that they just don't have the area to store wood for 2-3 years or there spouse doesn't care to look at the wood piles for that long...these are the customers your friend would want to find and serve.
2006-2007 we had an open order in the mill for all beech timbers. The sacrificial wood edgings off the sides of the timbers was amazing. I put up about 300 cord on sacrificial timbers so it was up off the ground and dried well. After a couple years ran it through the processor . It was practically bark free. Tried getting $210/cord delivered . Seasoned 2+ years. Never had a repeat customer. Never sold it all. Lost some to rot. Best wood I've ever burned in my stove. Still have about 30 cord left for my shed. Dad gets the punky stuff for his OWB. 97.639% of the wood burning population doesn't appreciate truly seasoned wood or is willing to pay extra.
Thanks for the replies folks. Just a little back story. This is how the internet conversation started. "My buddy is having creosote problems. He has never experienced anything like this. To be quite truthful, he is a fanatic when it comes to his wood. He tries to have it seasoned, inside, in a ventilated lean to for 2 years. His stove is a Kent, very efficient. His idea of a big fire is a handful compared to the wood eaters I am accustomed to. Anyhow, his chimney plugged up. He has never had anything more than a hatful of ashes when he cleaned the flue, before. I was busy and he got wood from somebody else. It looked very decent, but something is wrong. He can't identify some of the species. If the wood is burning at a slightly lower temperature, would that produce creosote?" After my buddy the wood seller and I had several more exchanges on the subject he has decided to go get himself a MM just for the simple reason he wants to know what he is selling. I guess if he can get a few extra dollars out of drier wood only he can answer that since he is the 1 who knows his customer base. Never having bought wood myself I really don't know for sure but I think a lot of wood sellers really are unaware of what kind of wood it takes to operate a newer wood stove these days. This is another quote from him in 1 of our exchanges. "I tend to be the guy that lets his wood season on the ride in from the woods. I know it takes more wood and it's not ideal by any means, but it works. I go for dead stuff and tend to have a roaring fire."
From the seller's perspective, it'd be pretty hard to sell truly seasoned wood. Let's say someone sells 20 cords in a typical winter. Well, then they'd have to have 60 cords on hand. That's a lot of wood. And it would have to be stacked properly, not just thrown in a heap. Ideally, you'd find material to top-cover that wood. I think it'd be pretty hard to sell really seasoned wood. I guess you'd need a lot of time and space, unless you set up some sort of kiln or something. Now, from the buyer's perspective, I'd pay more for truly seasoned but not a tremendous amount more. There would come a point where it's cheaper to turn on the propane. If I had to buy wood, I'd buy unseasoned, cheaper, and then let it season on my property. Just my $.02.
I agree with Lee. Most folks don't have a clue. If I had to buy wood, I would not pay a premium unless something really drastic happened. I'd simply stay on the 3 year plan and buy enough each year to another year so there would always be 3 years worth of wood here. It is understandable that many can not do it because of where and how they live. Yet some will work around this and store some wood on a relative's property or a friend's or wherever he could find. I know many places in this area where people would happily rent space in an old barn or outbuilding and the rent would not be high either. If I were out to sell wood for a living, I'd most likely try to stay on the 3 year plan even knowing it would be extra work. One might even hire some school kids to learn the art of wood stacking. Maybe some contests for local or state artists. That would be a great way to get some wood stacked and have some very nice looking works or art. Shoot, you could even charge entry fees and in time develop it into an annual affair but then you'd have to be looking at handling large crowds. Still the possibilities are there for someone who has space, woods and equipment along with a bit of business sense.
I wanted to mention, for so many different reasons people need to buy wood. In my case, we moved to a different state and left our seasoned wood behind for the new buyers, too expensive to move it as our home sold after 1 day on the market........They had a 30 day close guarantee from the bank (good qualified buyers are hard to come by). That left us (hubby) to remove 20 years accumulated possessions in that home between his work and frequent highway closings from bad weather. We thought we would be ok with 8 cords winter 2013/2014 and came up short after a record bad winter and knew we were in for a very late spring. The additional 3 cords we bought in the spring were not seasoned. Not totally green, but far from seasoned. We paid the fool for seasoned, c\s\s. It was cut and split but he showed up late and could not stack in the dark, never returned as promised for the stacking. We gummed up the already abused BKK, and supplemented even more with space heaters, as we paid a premium for the seasoned c\s\s..... though I think are a minority, there is no furnace here.
