Production Woodstock IS

That sounds like a good idea. What thickness and how would you attach it?

 

isn't the radiator already made of ss Or you just adding some beef to it.

 

I don't believe the radiator is SS. I don't think we would be getting any flaking if it was. I think Bruce is onto something with his idea.

 

I believe the junk that we are all having show up under the radiator is not paint but instead it is the actual steel scaling due to the long exposure (Easy Boys) to such extreme heat. Very typical of steel.

A stainless steel sheet under the radiator will absolutely slow the scaling but it will also slow down the transfer of heat out of the radiator. I would be tempted to leave it alone I think. I just had my radiator out and the scaling was not bad at all and the stove has been running since Oct. so I am not thinking that this will be a big problem.

Brian

 

I'd almost think a small piece of SS placed in the affected 'hotspot' on the underside of the radiator would not affect the radiators ability to hold heat.

 

It would not. But it would slow the heat transfer from the combustor, thru the radiator and finally out the top of the stove. Adding another layer in the heat transfer process will slow the transfer and the only result can be that more heat would go up the stack, only because it has nowhere else to go.

In fact, removing the radiator completely would yield more heat to the top of the stove for the very reason it was no longer in the way to slow down the heat transfer. But the top of the stove would then overheat; I am pretty confident that is the only reason the radiator is there in the first place.

As an example, note the thin, stainless steel plate under the top plate of the stove (assuming you have the cooktop): remove the cooking plate and the stainless steel underneath it is absolutely hotter when the stove is running than the cooking plate above. Exactly the example I believe will happen if another layer is added to the radiator- the stove top will run cooler and the exhaust in the stovepipe will be hotter, all other things being exactly the same.

Brian

 

If BrucePA-CWood still decides to attach it I'd be curious how it works.

Can you think of another way to protect the steel without compromising the transfer of heat?

 

What about cutting a 1-inch hole in the center of the radiator, right in the middle of the hot spot? There holes at either end, ostensibly for lifting it in and out of the slide. Mind you, I don't have the b@lls to do this......

 

My side medallions are the state of Maine, the top burner is the compass and side burners are the tree of life.
I spend most of the summer and fall in Maine.
The design's we picked out were a collaboration between my wife and my self, she liked the tree of life and I liked the compass.
We both love Maine where we have had a camp for 35 years and I have family there.
I wanted to do one of the Appalachian Trail strip map from Maine to Georgia.
Having thru hiked it a couple of times, but there just wasn't enough room to provide any detail.
We love how you can customize this stove as a part of your life.

 

OK
A couple of good points here:
1) if underside of radiator scaling is common; why didn't it show up on the beta testing? Did it? Com'on "Beta Boys", chime in here.
Was there a change in the steel used for the radiator or design from beta to production that may account for this? Is JA600L's experience is obviously NOT isolated here.
2) JA600L, did you contact WS regarding this?
3) the piece of stainless I have is approx 0.75mm thick. According to IS Heats My Home (Brian's) idea of a small piece of SS steel, just a bit larger than the size of the cat, would reduce the radiator's exposure to the direct-intense heat. I'm guessing some of the heat would he absorbed by the SS and transferred to the radiator and some lesser degree, more dispersed heat would 'roll-off' the SS plate and get absorbed by the radiator/ the other areas of the stove on it's way to the stack. BDF (Brian) is correct is assuming any additional layers of metal can potentially reduce radiation of cat heat - but to what degree(pun intended)? At the very least, Even with a piece of SS in place above the cat, the radiator might still deteriorate, but the flecks of steel would not fall into the cat.
4) I could attach the SS plate to the radiator quasi permanently with threaded fasteners. Which means more work for me - drilling into the radiator. Or, figuring out temporary method to attach SS plate that might just become the quasi permanent method.
Would requesting thoughts here be too obvious....

 

I cannot speak for any beta testers of course (I was not one of them).

All steel will scale but S.S. will do so at a greatly reduced rate. And basically, that is what we are talking about here, how fast the scale is produced.

As far as heat- transfer, really this is pretty straightforward and very direct: the more material (thickness) as well as the number of materials (layers) you have, the slower heat will travel through it (them). We all see this virtually every single day: we wear heavier clothes in the winter and more layers.... to keep us warm, which is really only reducing the rate at which heat is escaping our bodies. It is the rate of heat transfer that is all- important. Adding anything to the radiator in an I.S. absolutely will slow the transfer of heat from the catalyst to the top of the stove. This will in turn raise the temperature of the underside of the radiator (or whatever is placed under the radiator) and in turn, heat the flue gasses passing through / by the radiator to a greater temperature. Remember, heat transfer is a zero- sum situation: the heat produced MUST go somewhere or be converted into something else. As heat is the lowest form of energy, it is not likely to transform. That leaves transfer and in the end, it can only transfer into the building the stove is located in (read: good) or transfer through the only other path available.... the flue (in my opinion read: bad). How much of a loss there will be is certainly the question and I do not suspect it will be huge but it will be measurable IMO. The only two gains I can see are 1) the radiator will last longer. This is fine and well but I do not believe it is enough of a concern to really be solving any problem; replacing the radiator every 20 years is not a big issue. 2) slowing / eliminating the scale falling on the cat.. I believe this will absolutely be the result but again, lifting the radiator and vacuuming off the cat every couple of months is already not a bid deal (to me of course, YMMV) and it is worth getting the extra heat into the house.

In fact, I am thinking of doing something very much the opposite: I would like to block off the back of the radiator so that all flue gasses must flow forward, up and along the entire length of the stove's top. I believe this will improve heat transfer to the top of the stove and reduce flue temperatures. The only reason I have not tried it yet is because the flue temperature is already pretty low (always under 425F when running normally, and often under 400F) and there is not that much to be gained.

But I am a huge believer in 'tinkering' and would actually suggest you try it because it may create a situation you like better an I do not believe it can hurt anything. As far as fastening it, you could do so with some S.S. wire wound around both the radiator and the new S.S. plate to try it without making any modifications. TIG welding wire or a roll of MIG S.S. wire would be the easiest, least expensive way to get S.S. wire I believe. Wind the wire around both pieces, twist the ends together with pliers and if needed, put some kind of steel rod (again, a welding rod would work fine) between the wire and the thin S.S. plate you add, directly in the middle of the plate, to keep it tight against the radiator's surface. You do NOT want an air- gap between your new plate and the radiator as that would further slow the heat transfer down (think: twin pane thermopane windows- that is how they work).

Please do let us know what you do and how it works out. Woodstock build a great woodstove but there I have absolutely no doubt it can be improved and tinkered with to get ever better results.

Brian

 

No scaling on my beta and I ran it a heck of alot harder to. I know mine was one of the last if not the last beta built before production model.

A thought on how to test the addition of the ss plate. Cut to desired size, drill and tap a hole inline with the original holes in the radiator. Use a large washer or somthing to fill the space and have the additional piece bolted on. No permenant changes made sand easily removed.

 

Yep, that method of mounting an inner plate would work, be easy and not alter the radiator either- good idea.

The radiators on these stoves will not all scale at the same rate due to all of us using different burning characteristics. Also, the amount of air admitted to the cat. has been changed from the beta models to the mfg.'d models and that will have a big effect on how much, if any, the radiator scales. The big difference though is the temp of the radiator itself; steel will not really begin to scale at all until ~1050 F and then it occurs pretty slowly until the temp. is raised still higher. I know mine rarely runs above 1,200F and is much more often at or below the scaling temperature so most of the time scaling is not even happening. In fact, I find it pretty tough to run my combustor that hot because the secondaries kick in at higher burn rates and that reduces the temp. of the cat. itself (the fuel it would burn to get hotter have already been burned in the stove). But my wood is not as dry as it could (maybe should) be so I would imagine some of you folks can a do get the cat. into those ranges much more often.

Woodstock may have also changed the material the radiator is made from between the beta and production stoves and that would also make a difference in how they would scale.

Brian

 

If I had to be stranded on a desert island and had to survive by inventing stuff....I would definitely want you guys around (and more of you who had the good sense to get the WS IS).
By the way - Chestnut, nice stove man! Love that side medallion.
Happy heating!

 

I'd like to introduce our newest member to our and the IS family. 1-18-15, 6 lb 10 oz. Cannon is his name. 3.5 yr old big brother Parker on watch.

 

Holy cow Hollywood, what great news!
Mama and baby both doing well, I hope?
I think I saw a little baby sized split of Oak in there......get 'em started early.

 

Very well. Thank you. Don't we have kids to take off some of the work load.

 

Great news- congrats!

Is he doing anything around the house at all yet or still loafing? My two did not do anything useful for years....

Brian

 

I don't know- remember the Professor on Gilligan's Island? He could make a radio out of coconuts but could not fix a hole in a boat.... Kinda' reminds me of that Far Side cartoon of the fat kid pushing as hard as he can on the door marked 'PULL' at the 'School for the Gifted'.

Brian