Need some hydraulics help...

Well, I got really lucky this week and my friend dragged this out of his family's barn and let me take it home to try to get working for both of us!

I've got the engine sort of running, the carb was absolutely plugged with crap from sitting for years, and probably still has some stuff in the passageways, but it's running. Bought some pulleys, a belt, went through everything and got it all put together....

So, it works, kind of. There is a horrible howl, hard to tell what it's coming from but it sounds like the old pump is making a racket. It got a bit warm, but not crazy hot. It can throw the cylinder out and while it bogs a bit it does travel fine, but the return will almost instantly stall the engine. If I use my hand I can help it back as long as I bump the valve rather than hold it in return.

So, I'm thinking I'll replace the pump and see how it does, but I'm not that experienced with hydraulics and if there's something obvious that would cause this lack of power in the hydraulics and heavy load on the motor, I'd love some pointers. Also, it's a 7hp Honda, so if anyone has any pump recommendations, I'm all ears.

 

Pump/cylinder looks too big for a hydro tank that small.

 

Thanks for the input, I was thinking the same but I am assuming this worked at one point. Maybe not though? Pump is a Vickers V10, so 10-ish GPM. How big should a tank be for that flow rate?

 

The bigger the better. Fliter issues, plugged lines. Hard to say.

 

Any sign that the more you use it, it moves more freely?

 

Add to that... maybe new hyd fluid?

 

Im not an expert but eye no a lil'.
I wood think ideally pump rating + 30% minimum = gallons. So on a 10 GPM pump,,,, 13 gal+ tank.
Most of the commercial brand splitters are along those lines.

 

What is the condition of the hyd. oil? Clean or milky looking? Smell burnt?

After running it briefly, are there bubbles in the oil making it look like the head on a beer?

 

Max GPM for the V10 pump is 7 GPM at 1200 rpm's and 100 psi.

http://hydpump.com/pdf/V10 and V20.pdf

 

I was just playing with it some more, fluid is looking milky. Not too smelly. I ran it for a few minutes and used my IR thermometer to verify that indeed the pump was running 10°F hotter than the rest of the system. I also have been doing some research and it looks like indeed that tank is way too small. It might be a gallon and a half, and it seems like JustWood is exactly right in tank size recommendations. I think for sure there is air entrained in the fluid since that tank is so small, and it hasn't had time to get hot but no doubt it's going to. I'm checking out pre-built tanks on Surplus Center right now, and wondering how much I want to spend on getting this thing going. Looks like about $300 for pump/tank/filter. I would guess another $100 in fittings and hose, and maybe have the valve rebuilt. Not sure it's worth it, but I have a feeling I'll see it through just to see it go.

Thanks for the info on the pump Bret, I'm probably just going to order a new Speeco or something similar.

 

Matt,
That tank is small but it's not the cause of the issues you're having. On a hot summer day it could be an issue but not for the testing you've done so far unless the oil level is low. As long as the entire hyd. system is full, including the tank, you should be good to go for what you've done so far. The splitter I have also has a very small tank and I was able to split just fine even on hot days with a little break to cool down.

Is the fluid milky after sitting for a few hours (water or other contaminants) or only right after running (pump cavitation or air getting into the system elsewhere)?

 

Hmm, okay....Fluid didn't look milky until I ran it. I'll check again tonight after it settles down. I was suspecting air from the return blasting into the top of the reservoir, right next to the suction outlet?

 

Excessive entrained air in the oil could be an issue with that but even with the small tank it should be OK with what you've done so far if all components are in good working order.

Check every fitting for tightness. It's possible, not likely but possible, to have something suck in air and not leak out oil.

You mentioned the engine had some issues. When the engine starts to bog down can you see the governor arm move to respond to the load? Is it running at full RPM?

 

I tried it at full rpm and then came down a bit. It did respond to the load, but I assume there is a problem there as well. The engine bogs down on the cylinder throw but powers through, on the return it just bogs, unless I help the cylinder back. I ordered a new carb for it today, they are only around $30 and by the looks of the inside of this one that should make a big difference. Still, I feel like there is a problem in the rest of the system as well. I suppose I should get the motor running strong and put all new hydraulic fluid in it before I start throwing parts at it. I think I'm going to upgrade the pump regardless, as I really want the two speed function. I imagine it will be too slow as is.

 

Might be a combination of both motor and hydro issues adding up in the end.

I also wanted to upgrade the splitter I got very cheaply. Right now I only have $250 into it and have split about 30 face cords so far. To put it where it needs to be I need a bigger engine, two stage pump, bigger hydro tank, and a valve with auto return. The problem is, I can go buy a new splitter for what I'd have into this one at that point. I would miss out on the fun of the project though.

 

Sounds like right about where I'm at with this one. I am into it as a project, but yeah, a few more parts and I could just have a new one that goes vertically. I'll wait until the carb comes, maybe get a pump just to make it fast enough that I want to use it, and see what the next step is once I have those sorted. I imagine it's going to need a tank, just from the little reading I've done it seems that this one is all wrong. Not just too small, but the return is spraying down from above and the suction is real close to that point, with no baffle. Thanks for the help, I've got a much better understanding of these systems than I did this morning.

 

Milky fluid is likely moisture. Like others said could be air but I would lean towards condensation from sitting for so long. I found a speeCo pump 16gpm for around 125 on ebay when I did mine. No issues with it so far.

 

A bigger tank will help for sure. Check prices against Northern Tool when you're looking things up. I found some things cheaper there than at Surplus Center.