Progress Hybrid overfire?

Wow, is it that cold up there already that your burning 24x7, or almost? Yikes! I have yet to light up. I could have had a small fire a few nights, but haven't bothered yet. I'm waiting for new stove pipe to come in ..

 

Hi Machria,

Thanks for the helpful advice. I've read your other posts about the PH, and what you and others have said (including Charlie Wolz, RIP), and your posts helped me make the decision to purchase this stove.

One question I have is about the location of the temp gauge. I have an insulated pipe,so putting the gauge on the pipe won't give me a good reading as I understand it. I don't really see any other spot to place the gauge besides back part of the top of the stove. Any further insights there?

I plan to give Woodstock a call. I know they are straight out, so I've tried to avoid calling without a good reason, but I'm also seeing some smoke coming off the back of the stove on startup, in between the heat shield and the stove body. It's only there when I open the door and am just getting the fire started, but it's dumping a lot of smoke into the room. Maybe that and the overfire are related.

 

Yup, I'm like Dennis, I like it hot in the house. It was 82 last night in the front part where the stove is located, but doesn't get higher than 72 degrees in the living room. It's a big old drafty barn of a house in a hostile climate. No wonder only 600,000 people are crazy enough to live in VT.

 

Sounds like smoke flowing backward through the inlet/damper due to a draft not yet established. I don't ever have this problem due to a tall chimney. I've read of first lighting a newspaper 'torch' (crumpled roll of paper) inside the firebox up front by the bypass to get heat going up your chimney (also sure the bypass is open, right?).

{edit: damp, heavy air like we have now makes this worse - should be better once we cool down more.}

 

Thanks for indulging me with my newbie questions. We have a 30 plus foot tall chimney, so that's not an issue with the draft. Some of these smoking episodes have happened when the fire is going at a good clip. Is it possible to have a poor draft when you've got really good flames showing in the glass? I experienced the smoking issue once on the back of the stove when the gauge was at 550 degrees, which has contributed to my concern about it. It's not a small wisp - it's very noticeable. Stunk up the house last night.

Haven't read about this on any of the many posts I've looked at in obsessively reading about the PH. I tightened the bolts on the heat shield when we got it because it was rattling a lot - maybe I over-tightened them?

 

I would not worry about an over fire at all. It is a steel stove and can be safely run at that temperature all day without worrying about the stove warping or being damaged. If the cat was going ballistic, you will probably shorten the life of it, but the stove should be just fine.

 

Talked to Penny at Woodstock, and she also mentioned keeping the draft open a bit to prevent a run away stove, and said what many mentioned in this thread about the smoke - it's a draft issue. Steep learning curve right now, but will get better with time.

 

How tight is your home? I live in a leaky old farmhouse, but have friends in tighter homes that have trouble when the various exhaust fans are running (shower, stove, dryer) because the make-up air can't leak in fast enough. This is where the OAK (outside air kit) comes in. An easy test is to open a window in the stove room and see if the smoke trouble stops. If it does stop, simply tape over the wall switches to the fans, and get a clothes rack. (Preferably duct tape.)

(No amount of tightening the heat shield will cause this backflow of smoke.)

 

If only on startup I'd warm the flue with a hair dryer before lighting. That's what I'm doing on the cool but not cold nights. If when the stove is really going, then if look at a tight house or negative house pressure issue. The OAK might help.

A negative house can be cause by fans, dryers, etc. but it can also be caused by a house with tight walls and basement, but a leaky roof/ceiling. There is a lot of information out there about house pressure issue. Start with this:

http://www.gulland.ca/fhs/temperature.htm

And go from there. Think about it this way. As air rises and escapes out the ceiling through can lights, attic hatches, etc it has to be made up somewhere. If the walls of the house have been sealed, then the air will come from the stove.

J.

 

Your other option for locating the temp gauge with double wall pipe would be a temp probe. You drill a small hole thru the pipe and put a probe into the pipe.

 

Got it - thanks Machria.

 

Burndatawood: I am pretty sure I have experienced exactly what you are referring to. Under the condition of a strong flame with the door open (while loading the stove), the inlet air damper blows smoke. And yes a TON of scary smoke. This has happened to me a bunch of times, and each time the cure was to CLOSE the air damper all the way until the stove is loaded and door closed. The heat shield/bolts you referred to have nothing to do with it.

My take on it: The stove simply finds an easier exhaust flow out through the air inlet when the fire is raging. One of the curses of this stove is a poor draft path when the cat is bypassed. I don't think it's the chimney's fault. I know of at least one other person who has seen (and smelled!) this problem.

 

Same here - I rarely hit 475 on my stove, even with small dry splits loaded to the top on a very hot coal bed. funny how some users get some consistently high temps, and others never do. But like Machria said, the stove still throws great heat when the secondaries fire.

It's actually in "cool burn" mode when there are no flames but the stove top itself is very hot.

 

Great advice fire man. I'll close down the air intake next time I'm loading the stove when the fire is really going at a good clip. Didn't think I was the only one who might have experience that. Glad to hear I didn't screw up my stove with over tightening those bolts. Now I can relax a bit. this morning, and tonight.

 

I've never experience anything like that at all, whatsoever. When/if I open the door at anytime, it seems my draft gets even better/strong, and everything goes up the chimney. I never get smoke out the door, back or anywhere else when the door is open.

I have to disagree with that. When the bypass is open on this stove, it makes for a very direct path to the chimney. The smoke goes out the firebox thru the screen (which is in the front of stove), out the bypass right above the screen and across the top of the stove and out the flue collar into your stove pipe/chimney. When the bypass is closed, the path is thru the screen, across the stove in a small pathway to the back of the stove, then change directions and goes thru the cat toward the front of stove, then changes directions again and goes back toward the back to the flue collar (in a stlight downward direction) and then into your stove pipe/chimney. So it is as much easier path when the bypass is open.

So if your having smoke problems with the bypass open, I think it is a chimney/draft problem.

burndatwood, what kind of cap do you have on your chimney? I think the cap makes a huge difference!! It did for me anyway. My old cap almost created a reverse draft, my new "weather/storm" cap creates a huge draft! Big difference. Also, do you have any elbows, turns, downward pipes..... in yoru chnimney before it goes the 35' up?

 

Woodstock obviously agreed. They even enlarged the opening between the firebox and the smoke path above the fireback on newer stoves and older refrofits to compensate for the poor exhaust flow. The bypassed exhaust has to make THREE 90 degree turns on the way out of the firebox. Compare that to the fireview which goes literally straight out the firebox with not a single bend. If Three 90 degree turns is not a poor flow, I don't know what is. Each 90 degree turn is a significant restriction. The screen makes it even worse.

I've burned three stoves using the exact same flue setup, the only variable was the stove. The Progress is the only stove that misbehaved while loading. Can't blame the wood, 3+ year seasoned/covered.

Don't get me wrong, I love the stove. I'm just calling it like it is.

 

Interesting diagram. Hadn't seen that before. Thanks for sharing fire man.

Given your tip about closing down the air intake, and Penny's advice to me to go slower on opening the door, I think I can eliminate the problem. I do have two 45's and a 90 before a straight shot up, so that doesn't help. For a few reasons an OAK is not in the cards. Frankly, with the amount of outside air making its way through this drafty house, I can't see that I need one.

I love the PH too fire man. But I'm getting too old to not notice the flaws even when I fall hard.

 

Fireman,
Your posted pic actually contradicts what your saying. The red line in the diagram shows the path of the smoke when the bypass is CLOSED, not open. When the bypass is open, the air goes thru the screen, then straight across the stove (going AROUND the cat) and up the chimney. So it only makes one turn when it goes up thru the screen and turns toward the back of the stove. The wavy three turn path is ONLY when the bypass is closed.

 

When I am loading I simply open the bypass, open the air all the up, wait 10 or 20 seconds, the. Crack the door and wait 3 to 5 seconds, then open wide open. I have never really had any smoke come out the door.