What’s Going On with Woodstock Soapstone?

I suspect that the tax credit motivated some people to make purchases that they otherwise would not have. That was the intent of the credit after all. This artificially pushes up prices and volumes. At the end of the tax credit there is a dangerous period of time where demand will drop and prices must too. If Woodstock had problems before, then this "after tax credit" era, the hangover period, could be really bad. Their stove prices were already pretty dang good unlike so many other manufacturers that seemed to jack them up about the same amount as the tax credit.

 

Say what you will about the tax credit- but there are 4 people in my immediate orbit that went ahead with an install [3 wood stoves and 1 pellet stove] because the credit applied to the appliance, stove & chimney piping, as well as the labor to install it all. That was enough to push people over the edge to go ahead and pull the trigger.

 

Midwest Hearth cats are made in the USA. If given the choice, why would such a "pro-america" company offshore a part readily available in the states? Especially if the foreign manufacturer can't keep up.

 

If you keep stating facts and asking for the truth......

 

Sorry, I'll bite my tongue. Some people get really upset with difficult questions.

 

No apologies required here.

Yeah, you'll have that. I feel like I've got ten labelled as a negative Nancy for some of my comments sometimes. It only matters if you let it.

Wasn't it you who was recently asking some tough questions in another thread that got locked?

 

Because they are not made to their specifications nor their discriminating customer's expectations ?
Sometimes there are more than one set of goalposts.
I don't work for midwest cats and don't know much about them so I have no biases.

 

It’s not really a difficult question IF you have a Woodstock stove or used one and not a keyboard warrior jumping on band wagon,
Highbeam you have answered my question and helped me understand cat stoves in beginning. I really wanted BK King but had already installed 6 inch chimney

Woodstock welds a 2 inch lip around their cats so it is a drop in part, a gasket stays on sled that moves, the cat drops in hole in sled.
This design accomplishes a few things

first It makes removal of the cat less than 2 minute no tools needed, even when warm with gloves.
Your stove needs to be in coal stage but not cold

The sled brings cat into smoke path when hot minimum 500° to activate cat. Plus the lip is easy to grab and carry
the lip holds the cat in the hole.

so the steel that is welded onto the cat to make the lip. As you know cats can get to very high temperatures 1,000° normal and steel melts so specific types of steel are required. That lip is what’s causing hold up.. It is welded onto the cat at the Woodstock factory, I have seen the station at factory open house

Edit I don’t mind tough questions I have an Ideal Steel, I don’t mind discussing
I dont know what’s happening; I do know Tom is a good man! When a friend trips most help him up. Except on internet where it’s fun to tear him down

 

The biggest impediment facing Woodstock seems to be that that have $300-$400K in new stoves ready to ship but they can't because the EPA hasn't signed off on them. That is a serious amount of cash for a small business. Hearth & Home Technologies (owner of Vermont Castings, Pel Pro, Heat & Glow, Harman & Quadrafire) has a balance sheet big enough to swallow a disruption like that. They can also easily pay to engage a lobbyist to get the EPA off their @$$ and sign off on approval. The troubles at Woodstock are not going to be solved by welding some flanges onto CATs and getting them out the door, they need to ship stoves. Here is a list of EPA Lobbying Firms. I know attorneys at a lot of them, however, rates for a senior partner are $2500.00 per hour. Frack, the retainer fee alone could push $100K for something like this. Gotta love pay-to-play.....

Environmental Protection Agency Epa Lobbyists & Lobbying Firms

 

golf66 I am aware that many small companies are struggling. My response that you quoted was a response to Highbeam about why not use Midwest company for a cats specifically and why that wasn’t a hard question.
Any small business owner will tell you; they put so many problem/fires out in a day, it’s all they do.

 

It's my understanding that Woodstock received EPA certification in either late November or early December?

I don't believe that the goal of this thread is to tear Woodstock down. I completely want them to succeed. I just don't like it when a company blames everyone else for their problems. The EPA issue was a serious problem. Why were they so late to be certified? I don't know the answer to that.

The issues with the cats made me reconsider buying their product. This has been an ongoing issue for quite a while.

It has to be very difficult to run a business like Woodstock. Excuses don't cut it.

 

Woodstock had to tweak the air on some of their stoves due to the new EPA testing methods then had to recertify. When the Gov shut down that delayed it even more.

 

Man I should let this go… Burnin Since 1991 don't take this wrong, I am going to respond to some of these comments and then bow out of conversation. I think you’re frustrated but your statements are inconsistent.

Woodstock has not blamed anybody. No one has talked to upper management just employees who are apologizing and probably also frustrated. As a business owner I don’t share nightmares with every employee. Again Woodstock has made no excuses!

they are not so late to be EPA certified; the Ideal Steel, Absolute steel, Progress Hybrid etc etc have been EPA certified for years. Think of it like getting your old car a state inspection sticker. They, the govt, decides your 1960s classic has to pass an emissions test.

Your on here expressing frustration at a company for not being timely with Govt permits. When is last time you applied for a building permit? That’s months and only local and 1 state!

 

You are correct in that Woodstock could possibly turn to Midwest for premade CATs. Some of the stainless CATs listed on the Midwest site look remarkably similar to the Ideal Steel CAT. For now, I'm relieved to see the post from Backwoods Savage that Woodstock has received EPA certification and can ostensibly start shipping stoves again. I love the Ideal Steel and perish the thought of having to buy another stove. Right now, Oscar (my Ideal Steel) is chewing on extra dry white ash and the house is super toasty. And I have no problem saying that I took the day off and cracked a beer at 10:00 AM.

 

golf66 I love my Ideal Steel also; it’s called “the beast”, before I replace it I will buy generic steel cat and weld a tab to it and try to make it work

since it frigid here I will do this in the spring and be prepared

 

Just what I was going to say...pretty sure the govt shutdown had a lot to do with the delay

 

You're going to wait until spring to crack a beer?

 

There stoves may have been certified for years but thanks to one single manufacturer taking advantage of a loophole in the old cordwood test method they decided to change the test method back to crib wood and also don’t allow the manufacturer to decide where the low and high burn rates are when testing. Air intakes had to be adjusted for this new test and certification. I’m sure some R&D had to go into this taking some time as well.