Carbon Monoxide Part 2

So the saga continues!!

The old and even the new detector went off about 4AM this morning . One detector was at the base of the staircase, other detector was plugged in about 10 feet from the stove by the sliding glass door to the deck.

I never had this problem for the first 5yrs of burning, but back in very early spring of 2023 I had it go off on me and has gone off since more and more frequent. That thread can be found here. I chalked it up to foggy, humid, and warmer weather.

Fast forward to now, I've had it go off again LN, this time no warm weather (25 degrees LN), no high humidity (humidity 49%) or fog what the fudge

Couple of things to note when I came down to inspect at 4AM, standing in front of the stove with the blower in my face I could smell some sorts of a back draft or something. PPM on the CO detector was 110 - 120 range, I cracked a few windows. What was left of any wood in my stove was big black chunks, very lump charcoal like. I interrogated my Son who has a bit of OCD and usually last to bed, checking all the doors, locks, lights, etc... and is old enough to run the stove a bit and asked if he shut the air completely off and says he did not I trust him but there is a small chance he did.

A quick back story on an issue I had with my liner where it detached at the cap and sunk down a bit in the chimney, thread here. I've since corrected.

Soon as I had sunlight I was up on the roof to see if it indeed collapsed again and it did not, seemed secure, stable, and level with the top of the cap opening. I was half hoping to find it slumped down in the chimney so I'd know what the issue was, but it wasn't so now I am at a loss, wtf is going on?

As mentioned on the other thread I just picked up two new CO detectors that give the PPM reading (one with historical readings) so I can monitor. It was very very helpful this AM seeing what the levels were and watching them drop after cracking a window. Anything above 50 it will beep every few minutes.

 

My stove is in the basement with 90% of tbe chimney being outside (pipe up our stove, 45’s towards wall thimble where it goes out and T’s up, and a couple times, even with active coals in the stove, the flu near the wall will be cold. I’ve only checked after opening air and the door to reload and the CO detector begins to go off.
With our basement install, I have to keep a hot flu or it backdrafts.

 

My chimney goes down the center of the home, approx. first half of it is inside the home, but on the 2nd half it is exposed outside on three sides. Clay lined with brick on the outer.

Just irritating, don't want to play with CO in the house with 3kids, yet at the same time I know its minimal, but it's just irritating as to why it's happening more frequently and waking me up at 4AM, if it could wait till about 5AM I am usually up, lol!

 

How was the wind the last night that it happened? It sounds like the draft is reversing for whatever reason, or combination of reasons, and with no outside air kit, it’s dumping the exhaust in the house. It might not always be from the same set of circumstances. It seems pretty clear that it’s backdrafting into the house so the question is why.
One set of circumstances could be warmer temps outside and a dying, smoldering fire can’t maintain an adequate draft causing it to reverse.
Or it could be cooler outside but have damp, heavy air. That coupled with a dying, smoldering fire would make it very hard to maintain a positive draft.
Or it could be plenty cold and low humidity outside but a low smoldering fire is susceptible to back puffing if the wind gets gusty out of a particular direction.
The common denominator seems to be a low, smoldering fire in the middle of the night. And then some other set of outside factors are pushing air back down the chimney.

 

Have there been any changes made to the house?
New windows, insulation/air sealing, or any new appliances that pull air from the house? Bath/kitchen fan on, new radon fan, central vac system, dryer running, standing pilot water heater pulling a constant draft, stuff like that, that could pull a negative pressure on the house/overcome the wood stove chimney draft? An attic access not in place correctly...making the house act as a, and fight against the chimney, because warm air is floating up to the highest point of the house...or basically creating its own draft, pulling against/and out of the actual chimney...it's known as Florida Bungalow Syndrome.
The few times I've had similar happen in our Drolet 1400i stove, it was either funky weather, like you said, or at least one time there was apparently a chunky piece of wood that wasn't as dry as us firewood hoarders are accustomed to...black n smoldering in the back of the stove...normally anything that isn't already ashes, is a hot coal that will soon be ashes...not much smoke making potential.

If the liner/flue is not if the insulated type, adding insulation would certainly help.
Also, do you have a cap that has fine mesh/bird screen over it? If so the last warm/wet spell could have crapped up the screen and it needs cleaned. Scotty Overkill just posted of this issue at his house lately.

 

Really great information, thank you. Gives me a bit to think about.

Wind was very mild this AM when I went out for a walk after being up since 4AM.

Perhaps I am choking the air off too much?? I've choked it like that for years without issue but maybe I'll have to back it off a bit since this has become a nuance.

Problem is when I don't choke it off enough it will run like a Ferrari and by 2AM blower is off and the house is cold, but it will have to do.

 

Thanks for reply much appreciated

No changes internally to the house that I can think of, everything is pretty much the same setup.

Liner is insulated for sure and the top cap has a mesh screen over it. Here is pic I snapped this AM on the roof.

 

Did the furnace happen to kick on?

 

Can't confirm 100% yes but if I had to bet most likely yes, it usually always kicks on around that time 4 - 5 AM maybe a tad sooner

 

Could be that the stove draft was struggling, then the furnace kicked on, put things over the edge?
(Unless you have a HE gas furnace...they pull combustion air from outside)
But even the furnace blower kicking on could disrupt pressure zones on the house...

 

Thank you, it's very very possible it's an old furnace from the 90's. Wait the 90's are old? Am I old?

At least I am not crazy and I am learning a few things here as always. I feel better about grabbing a few extra CO detectors especially the ones with the historical reading as you had suggested

 

Well I need to give credit where it's due... I didn't know about them either, until a few years back when JRHAWK9 mentioned that it was a thing...

 

I just had to replace mine with a new one this past year. As the 10 years was up on my original one.

 

0 PPM on the CO detector this AM.

Weather wise it was eerily similar to the other night when it went off and got up to 120PPM.

Approx. 25 degrees out, mild wind, 80% humidity according to my little weather sensor placed out back.

What I did different was not choke off the air as much. Surprisingly I woke (Slept in for once till 6:30) to some coals to get a new fire going.

 

Hmmmmmmmm..
Believe you may have identified an issue!
Let us know if you are repeating safe results.
Good luck.

 

Yup I agree how much to damper down varies with outside temps, door gaskets wearing, coal bed etc etc

 

See the below previous reply regarding that. I have the smaller version of that stove and if you load it up good it'll try to melt down, even with air "fully" closed...the typical ole easy breathing Drolet stove...

Me personally, I think this is more of a house/systems issue than it is a stove/chimney one.

 

Problem continues..................I had no issues this am and loaded it up normally and ran it like usually do.

We had an xmas party at my wifes families house around 1PM, I loaded it up before I left so the house would be warm when we got back.

I got back around 8:30, and walked into all the CO alarms going off, downstairs, upstairs you name. Checked my CO detector and it was over 400, you've got to be kidding me this ain't no joke anymore!

I opened all the windows..............but i am just at a loss an absolute loss. The air was not choked way off but choked down a little.

brenndatomu you asked what might have changed in the house earlier and I said nothing, but I realize that something did change. I replaced the gasket on the stove door. Seemed simple and straightforward, could have I done something wrong?

I will say that I may have bought a thicker gasket than the original as the door is much hard to shut and secure. But it shuts tights and latches fine. I feel defeated, and feel like I can't run the stove which is something I dearly love to do in the winter time.

Would a direct air intake solve this problem? I don't even know if my stove could accept one..................This is all so new this never happened running the stove all these years.

I may get clean out the liner just to make sure nothing is blocking it............am at a loss.