Shoulder Season Fire Strategies

Greetings

I have had my Absolute Steel for a few winters now and I am finally 3 years (or maybe 4 depending on who you ask) ahead on wood so I am trying to switch to 100% wood burning. In past years I would run the mini splits in weather like we have been having in VT (50s day / 30s night) and start burning 100% when we were into two fires a day weather.

I have had a few fires the past week and stalled the cat in my stove twice which I had not done since I was a newbie (Thanks Oldhippie for all the help) . Stove was about half full, cold start, top down fire. Started really well, STT up to 300, stack 600, closed the CAT, brought it down to 3 then eventually a 2. No flames but the CAT probe was around 900. This was at night so temps were in the 40s. STT got up to 350-400 then I stopped looking, however it started dropping about 2 hours in and I checked outside and we had a smoke dragon on our hands.

Part of me always associated shoulder season burns with no flame, CAT burns but I am starting to think the stove needs to be full with wood to get enough consistent, hot enough smolder to sustain a long CAT burn. So more of a December situation than October. I think for tonight I will try to leave the air higher to keep flames going and use smaller logs. The fire is small enough that it won't over fire the stove. I found an old Woodstock blog post and they seem to agree.

How to build a shoulder-season fire in a cold stove, with virtually no emissions, and no effort or maintenance after you light the match! (Part 1)

Thoughts/experiences.

Thanks!

 

in our Ideal Steel, during this shoulder time we might have a smaller hot fire only for overnight.

 

Yeah this time of year can be tricky!
I don't have a cat stove, but stalling your draft is stalling your draft, no matter the stove type.
Last weekend I light a fire in the lil Drolet 140oi in the fireplace late Friday evening...fire went well, house warmed up, went to bed. Got up the next morning, shut off the blower on the insert (it has both a thermostat controlled , and manually controlled blower setting) and went about my morning routine.
About 20 minutes later the CO alarm started going off...I was thinking what the heck, the fire is burnt out, and there is no other combustion going on in the house anywhere!
Turns out there was a couple small biscuit sized pieces of charcoal buried in the ashes in the stove that apparently were still smoldering a bit? I raked them to the front of the stove, open the air control wide open, and opened some windows to air the place out, charcoal disappeared, so did the CO.
It was about 50* outside, which usually makes for fine draft on this stove/chimney, but apparently not always!

 

Sounds really similar to the two experiences I've had the springtime when temps are similar to fall. I've had my CO alarm go off twice, usually was mild out, or rain/high humidity.

I did replace my gasket this fall (was going to post the install, but forgot to take pics ). I was going on 7yrs with the original, was in decent shape but figured was time to upgrade. Dang that thing is now tight........

 

I really don't have anything to add to what has all be said above. It hit 32'F this morning Oct. 25th, so I was thinking I might get the AS started, but I've got all sorts of outdoors tasks that I need get on. (too much motorcycle/not enough chores and now I'll pay the price)

But I do like Dennis' method, keep a flame going, and maybe open up the intake a bit more. I just looked at my 9:45 temp and it's up to 40, so no need of the fire.

Of course I'm not in upper VT either. So your temps are certainly colder than where I am on the MA/NH line.

 

I agree with Backwoods Savage and Oldhippie always a safe bet. My stove is bigger and my draft is way above average.
My only add is the Ideal Steel performs completely differently with a hot 2-3 inch coal bed versus a new build.. of course this is normal in winter versus a shoulder season get hot and burn out fire..

When building a top down fire all heat is at top where you are measuring but no foundation so keep air upto keep fire up
My wife answer to this is keep stove going and open the windows.

although she wants mini splits mostly for AC in summer so interested in how they work with wood stove.. in these conditions as we age? If you wouldn’t mind expanding on it

 

I find that using small logs or resplitting to 2-3 inches is the best for the shoulder season and keeping the flames going as well. When using my normal sized logs, the cat will stall in warm temps for me sometimes.

 

Thanks for the responses everyone, kept a flame going on the fire last night and had good results! I needed to move around my top covers for the wood pile so with the top off I got a few weeks worth of uglies off the top of the pile.

On the Mini Split topic. It really, really depends on the layout of your house. If you have a lot of closed off, boxy rooms like a colonial you are going to need a lot of heads and outdoor units. IMO, the most efficient way to utilize them is if you have a ranch with a long centralized hallway so it can blow down the hallway towards the rooms. The other benefit is one head tied to one outdoor unit is more efficient (because it can run on a very low BTU) than multiple heads tied to the same unit.

I will turn mine on to take the chill off if the house is cold when we wake up but will be in the 60s or 50s during the day, especially in the spring when I am not burning with the same enthusiasm I was 6 months before. We also use it if we go away

Price per BTU they are cheaper than electric baseboard, propane, oil below $2.50/gal, and cord wood above $300/cord. They are not cheaper than natural gas but as you know that is rare in New England. However, if you need boatload of heads/outdoor units it will probably never pay for itself.

On the AC side, I use mine because it's there, but I didn't have it, I would probably just stick to good ole window ACs and not install one, the price of the mini splits are just not worth it for just AC currently in Northern New England. We added our mini split because our oil tanks and furnace needed to be replaced and we also have electric baseboard for extreme cold and to make the insurance company happy as some don't consider mini splits central heating.

Attached is a photo of our setup

 

Great explanation thanks

 

Nice looking stove! and Home!

 

Great info! I've been considering them for the AC. Give me a lot to think about.

 

Thanks

One thing to consider is having them in an optimal area for heat is the opposite of what you want for AC. My setup is optimal for heat since the area closest to the mini split is warmest and further away is colder. When it's AC time you usually want the bedrooms to be colder. We are in a ranch so we usually run the AC until the outside temp gets into the 60s then shut it off an open all the windows. If it was a two floor house we would definitely need a second one for AC since the 2nd floor is usually way hotter. BUT I have heard of people in well insulated two floor homes getting away with one mini split for heat since it rises up the stairs.

 

We recently put mini-splits in our old farm house primarily for a little AC and for humidity control in the summer. We'd used window fans in the warmest nights for the first 37 years or so, but the number of nights that were uncomfortable even with the fans seemed to be getting more numerous every summer, and the house was getting pumped full of humid muggy night air that caused musty smells and mold on leather goods, etc.

The AC side costs very little to run, at least the way we use it. It's only on downstairs on the hottest days; most of the time we only have the AC on in the upstairs bedrooms. The heat, however, uses more energy, and the system really starts to work harder when it gets down to about 40f outside, so that shows up noticeably on the electric bill. Still, it's nice to have the option when you just need a little something to knock the chill off.

We almost never cut the heat on in any of the upstairs rooms. When it gets cold enough to need to warm the bedrooms, it's time for a wood fire. The large woodstove we have is pretty central on the first floor, and the upstairs is heated as much as we want/need by natural air movement. You can stand in different spots on the stairs and feel the warm air rising and the cool air coming back down; the drafts are noticeable and separate.

One thing I did not realize would happen with the mini-splits though - with our Mitsubishi system, a little circulation takes place through all of the units even if only one or two is actually turned on. So even though we don't "ask" for heat upstairs, there is some slight heating taking place when we have the heat running downstairs. I found that odd but was assured that's the way they function. The units will also pop/crack/creak slightly as they cycle on and off and the plastic expands and contracts, probably more with the heat than the AC. We were used to dead quiet nights in our rural home, so this took a little getting used to.

Overall I feel the system was a good investment, especially to have cool and much drier air in the house in the summertime!

 

This is one reason I've never liked a top down fire in my stove. Though its non cat it just seems like it never really would draw as efficiently besides at start up. Or it would just result in a more smoldery and slow fire, not more efficient in my opinion. I know I know, I'm in the minority for being a top down starter naysayer!

For shoulder seasons I've learned just burn almost the same as I would during actual cold season. The room will be hotter, but the rest of the house won't mind it over night. My PE T5 stove breathes pretty easy though, never had the CO monitor go off.

 

My Clydesdale drafts terrrrrrrrrrribly in this weather. Especially when it's a drizzly day like today.

For a cold start I stack the box full of cedar, couple fatwoods on top, with split with a thin wedge above the fatwoods. So mostly a top down fire. Then I run the torch up the flue for a minute and then get the fatwoods ripping hot and fully involved. Leave door wide open till the entire top is blazing and then I half-close the door (my latch has some latitude in closing) for about 15 minutes, then close door, then let it sit for 45 minutes till the cats are ready, THEN and only then do I start turning the air down.

On the plus side, in this weather (40 low 50 high), with a soapstone stove, I can load it once a day and that's it. House thermostat set to off.



Not bad for a 4-bedroom, 3-story house!!

 

When highs are in the 40-50’s I usually only need one evening fire to keep my place comfy til the next evening. As it gets colder I will reload in the morning and go to a 12 hour reload schedule and then a 8 hour schedule when it gets really cold.

as far as starting fires I like the sandwich method. Lay two splits down side by side, about 4 small pieces of kindling across them with a firestarter then add splits on top of that. I usually have my Fireview engaged within 15 minutes this way.

 

I find the TeePee method keeps most smoke out. Ball of paper, birch bark in middle then finger size laying on top.. a bigger split east and west. It works for me

 

This year we totally changed up the shoulder season routine. Maybe we're getting older or something but we would much rather the house cool off at night and stay warm during the day so rather than an evening fire as outdoor temperatures drop I've been starting morning fires that hopefully go out before bedtime.

I'm still working during most days away from home so only the dogs enjoy the warmest daytime temperatures but I get to to come home to a warm house and no wood burning duties until the next morning.

Oh and I have a minisplit capable of heating the home but ick. Noisy, and blowey, and costs more to use than the firewood purchased in log form. I made a whole spreadsheet because the minisplit is more efficient at higher temperatures so I know how much more I'm paying for that convenience at different temperatures. We like the mini, I can turn it on via WIFI from anywhere. Great to have AC too.