Acceptable water percentage in efree gas

Anyone know... using an ethanol tester... is 5% water too much in efree gas? I have been having trouble with eXmark mower with Kawasaki FR691V motor which is ten years old and has never given me any trouble. Died suddenly, limped back to garage and only my choking heck out of it got me home. Cleaned carb, found a bunch of rust. Replaced fuel pump, didn't seem to be pumping gas to carb and still no dice. Reminds me of water in gas. Is 5% gonna make it run like crap? When I tested it after it first acted up, I thought it was 1-2% but who knows, maybe I misread it. Now, I tested 5%. I haven't yet found online what is acceptable for e-free gas. I always use efree gas but we did have a power outage I think it was two months ago and I had to use e10 gas but I was thinking all of that has been gone through and I have run a couple of tanks through of efree gas. Whatever it is, it's driving me nuts. Only other thing I can think of is a vacuum line problem. Three lines in/out of fuel pump -- 1 is coming from the gas tank/filter, 2 is vacuum line going to crankcase, providing impulse, 3 is line going to carb. The 1 and 3 are clear, the 2 I dunno, I don't know how to check that line, it disappears into the motor, not sure how to see if it's clogged or got a hole or what. Any ideas here? Recap... mower might run fine for 5-10 minutes and suddenly die or want to die and only thing that keeps it going is lots of choke. Sometimes, it won't run unless it's max choke and it runs normally but eventually sputters and dies. I've also added Seafoam and that does good for a little bit but it doesn't last. Tried to siphon all gas out but my siphoning technique is lacking these days. I wish eXmark put a drain in bottom of gas tank.

 

Definitely not an expert and I’m sure others will chime in, but I think any engine would run horribly on 5% water in the fuel.

 

most carbs on equipment like this have a fuel screen just after the fuel line connection. they like to plug up. it is buried a bit but its there . 5 % water is pretty high , pull the fuelline at the carb and drain the tank that way. if this unit has a fuel pump as a seperate item not part of carb there might be a screen there. also to drain tank you have to go to the input of said fuel pump. black line going inside engine likely pcv a leak in that will cause what you are describing. only other thing I can think of right now would be a collapsing fuel line ( rotting out from the inside). make sure your governor is free and not encumbered by spider webs or other foreign material.

 

Zero is my thoughts. Zero water.

 

IF you're having water issues, check this vid out:

 

My deere GX335 does this when it needs a fuel filter if I've neglected to change it. Only runs with choke on and then dies.

Can you drain it by pulling the fuel line off the pump that comes from the tank?

 

The fuel line to pull off comes from the tank to an inline fuel filter (which I changed already) and goes to the fuel pump and then to the carb. If I pull it off where it connects to the fuel filter, (that was my idea), the problem is that the deck is in the way; it will be hard to do but I did find a large shallow pan that maybe I make work. I thought of also running it up on ramps if I can get it cranked.

I haven't watched the video posted above but HEET is what I went to buy earlier today and nobody had it. I was gonna get STP Gas Treatment, which says it "absorbs moisture" but a salesman talked me into getting an octane booster. He was dead set on getting it going and running enough to burn it all out of the tank. Said he just went through this problem, got water in the gas from a store five miles from where I buy my efree gas. They are probably serviced by the same gasoline distributor. But, his store might have just had water in their own tanks, I have no idea. It's been a heat wave here, I wonder if condensation is worse now.

 

5% is a lot, yes.
That salesman is 100% full of CRAP though...octane booster will do NOTHING for you in this situation, might even make it worse!

 

Did you say the problem comes and goes?

 

Agree w Dave. You need something that is water soluble, like isopropyl alcohol, that will allow that water to be burned. Vid will show that a pretty decent amount of water can be moved through the engine. Find that Heet.

 

I have Heet now and put it in but it is running even rougher. brenndatomu is probably right, the octane booster made it worse. I put up a good fight against that salesman but he was strong-willed, lol, and absolutely positive. I said why in the world do I need to boost octane versus taking care of the water, assuming that this is the problem. Again, basically, he said you gotta have this octane boost to make it run well enough to just burn it all up. Anyway, it's worse. It is continually rough now with no periods of running full speed. Before, it would run good a bit and then run rough. Often, would eventually just quit, no matter what I did. It runs only on full choke. Will try again in the morning.

Tried to drain all the fuel but I never could get to it well enough; I find it to be an awkward design for that. Even up on ramps. Then I tried to back onto the ramps thinking I'd get better access but it would not run good enough to get it done. Sure would like to drain all that mess out! Mind you, it was 107 degrees and I can only go a few minutes each time I try something. Actual temp, not heat index. More coming. Heat wave from hell.

 

turkey baster and some extra hose slow as sin but it will get job done considering the way things are made now days it would likely be a one time use item.

 

A squeeze pump like from a outboard motor gas tank works well enough to drain a tank.

 

If an engine would run OK on 5% water …. Cheapskates like me would fill a 20 gallon tank with 19 gallons of gas and a gallon of water!!

 

When I worked in a garage years ago we would use Air Brake Antifreeze that would be used in a truck with air brakes.
This when added was also a way to get a failing car to pass an emission test back when they used a sniffer in the tailpipe.

 

No luck yesterday. Due to siphoning troubles, finally bought a little squeeze bulb siphon hose and I got most of it drained. Added 93 octane efree gas. Same old song. It'll run rough but only on full choke and will die eventually. Usually in a minute or two.

I will add that while siphoning, I did see a couple slugs of dark material come through the clear siphon line. Can't be good.

I put an air blower chuck on compressor and blew into the line between the fuel pump and the gas tank and it blew into the tank fine. I thought it might be plugged with something but saw no indication of that. But I can't see down into the tank. At some point, again checked for fuel flow from fuel pump and had ZERO. I jacked with it off and on. Sometimes it would run as described. I checked fuel pump again and DID see some flow. I don't know how much is enough.

I pulled the line coming from the engine to the fuel pump, the impulse line. I put my thumb over it and did feel impulses. I don't know how I would tell if it's 'enough.'

I finally gave up yesterday. Today, it ran the same -- rough. Finally quit after a minute.

I then rigged up an old gas tank with a fuel line and ran it straight into the carb, gravity flow. It cranked and ran like a top with NO choke. So, that indicates to me it's not a carb issue. Only thing I can think of is either this second new fuel pump (OEM) is bad, which is unlikely, or something is screwy with compression? What could it be? It has impulse but maybe it is not strong enough?

I have read up on this and found some horror stories where guys spent days and days on this and did the part-chasing thing, which I have certainly done. And they know what they are doing and I don't, lol.

EDIT: I can't see how to easily do it but I need to get the impulse line off and see if it's cracked? Also, maybe I can rig up this gravity feed BEFORE the fuel pump and if it runs, then there has to be a plugged line between the tank and the pump?

EDIT: I thought I had great news. I put the gravity feed setup before the pump this time. It started with no choke and ran like a top. It ran so good, I was sitting there looking at it thinking ok, now we know... it has to be plugged up between the tank and the pump. As it was purring along at full throttle, it suddenly died, just like you flipped a switch. I got it going but only on full choke. It ran great a bit, and I eventually had to choke it again to keep it going. Finally, it ran rough and would die and I could only crank it with choke. Same old song. This deal today, with it running good as ever with the gravity feed but then morphing into the rough running thing... I am baffled. If it were a bad impulse situation, why would it ever run like top like I described above? I thought I'd made headway but nope.

 

Bad fuel pump?
I was going to say to blow the fuel line back into the tank...we have had a bee plug the fuel line several times...BUT, this is on a diesel, and it turned out that the bees like to hang out in the diesel nozzle on our tank!

 

did you use the orginial fuel line or a new one. second question is have you checked the float in the carb for leaks on it. Only other thing I can think of is a bad condenser or coil- electronics if so equipped. enough heat can cause similar problems in this area. Tuff to diagnose heat related issues. and spark plugs and due the same. And do not forget about that hidden screen in the carb.

 

Are you asking have I replaced the fuel line? I have not.

I have not checked float in carb for leaks other than just eyeball it. Did not check hidden screen.

As for it being carb related, I can't envision that now. I just tested it again... set up gravity feed tank and ran that straight into the carb. It ran until I shut it down. Probably 15 minutes. To me, again, that points to it (in normal configuration) being a fuel issue... like the impulse line. Remember, I replaced the fuel pump. Twice! Maybe a compression problem?

 

Not if it runs fine on a nurse tank!