Which one - Progress Hybrid or Ideal Steel?

We are replacing a ~1992 VC Defiant in our great room. after purchasing it about 1 year ago, I have been running it this year and it has some shortcomings to be expected from a stove of this era, deferred maintenance from prior owners means I cant trust it with larger, longer burning loads with out doing a full rebuild. The rebuild will be about $1500 and will just leave me with a rebuilt older stove. We love the looks, it is a center piece and want to find a new one to take its place.
I have been delighted to find the Woodstock Soapstone brand, reputation and selections, for us it is either the Progress or the Ideal Steel. Both will provide acceptable looks and they both seem to be revered as long burning, predictable performing stoves backed by a strong service oriented team.
This is current room the stove will be placed:

Great room pic.jpg
kiowa · Nov 25, 2022 at 6:32 PM

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We really love the look of the Progress and the massive chest of soapstone tiles it has for a lasting radiant residual effects. One of the big differences is side load vs front load. I have always had front load, but this defiant stove is the first one with glass! I can make the side load work but with the location of the stove it will always be approached at a slight angle due to the brick surround. I will never be able to directly look or load in the firebox from the side, always with a slight angle. I am concerned about the ergonomics of doing that with heavier 20" oak splits. Less so with ash pan operations but same situation, angular approach position. This picture was during an attempt to organize the area around the stove, but honestly can represent the space in some real world conditions.
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kiowa · Nov 25, 2022 at 6:32 PM

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The Ideal Steel is ergonomically more friendly, its looks might be construed as trendy but I think it is still very tasteful. It appears that both stoves can perform the way we want them to and both are a huge improvement from our current one!

Has anyone had both? Anyone worked with a Progress with a similar approach as I am describing?

 

Welcome to the forum! Beautiful room and setup!

And I just have to say, I've never seen such a moose head before.....

I'm sure the members with relevant information will be along shortly...

 

I’m a huge fan of WoodStock Soapstone stoves, even though I don’t own and have never owned one … yet.

However, in this situation given that there will be some challenges to loading and with regard to the ash pan … I believe, for myself, I would have to pass on the Progress Hybrid … although it would look beautiful sitting in that spot … I thing the challenges off-set ring user friendly. I wouldn’t want to wrestle, finagle, twist and contort loading 20” oak splits or messing with a hot ash pan. The wood you’ll likely end up getting in a hurry, become lazy, and just start chucking the wood in there and you’ll likely break the soapstones as a result.

Your current stove already has numerous features that I wouldn’t want to give up.

1. Thermostat: You will miss a thermostat. I wish every manufacturer offered their stoves with a thermostat. They offer more simple operation and more even heat output.

2. Front and Top loading: Front loading for obvious reasons, top loading for other obvious reasons. Top loading is another feature I wished ever stove manufacturer offered on their stoves. Smokeless reloading.

3. Cook plate: Pretty much self explanatory for most rural homes and those looking for a stove for when the power goes out. Myself, that’s part of the pleasure of owning a wood stove, knowing you can be self reliant.

4. Has secondary air and a catalyst: The stove is a little dated, but newer similar models burn slightly cleaner and have all the same features.

5. Warming Shelves: I think these can be ordered with warming shelves which is a nice feature that may or may not be useful to you and that location.


Those are just some of the things like about VC stoves although customer service has been horrid for quite a while now.

Blaze King stoves have the thermostat and catalyst, much longer burn times, a deeper firebox for safer loading (log rolling out) and the deeper fire box means the stove can go a few weeks or a month before ash is removed. A King 40 would look nice sitting in there. Can cook off of the stove top if you have to. I believe only three gaskets to change or replace.

If I had to choose a soapstone stove to go in that spot (looks like a fairly large home … sq ft?) I’d probably opt for a Hearthstone Soapstone stove just because it would give a very similar look you seek in a soapstone stove with out the loading and ash pan hassles.

As you said, you could move any WoodStock stove forward, or any other for that matter, but for myself in that room I wouldn’t want it sticking out so far as to look odd or protrude out into the living space more than necessary.

 

IIRC, the air/damper control is on the back (corner) of the Progress Hybrid. And the door being on the side sounds cumbersome. And the cost is about twice as much as the IS.
For me, as much as i love the PH, I'd have to opt for the IS for the front loading door, front ash pan, and front air control.

If there was no nook, I'd definitely go PH for looks.

 

Progress hybrid user for last 6’ish years. For your set up I would lean towards an Ideal for the front load OR offset the Progress Hybrid to the left and have the door on the right hand side. No wrong answer, most users are have said the IS is easier to control than PH, the new PH have an updated air control system that equals the IS.
Personally I like the look of the PH better but the IS in bronze and soapstone is pretty sharp looking!

 

It's a shame not to put a Progress there, but a straight-up flue pipe with a front load does make sense. Get some custom paint and andirons and all the Doo-dads on the sides with the extra soapstone and all the warming plates and I think the Ideal Steel would be a great addition to that home. What is the sq feet and how many cord per year were you going through with that Defiant?

 

I thought of this also, (but figured it wasn't an option.) It would work great slid out 12-16". And setting the adjustable legs to the highest position. Using the rear outlet would push the flue back and a bit more out of sight.

 

Are the PH and IS that much different radiating heat? The IS can be ordered with soapstone liner. Without being around one before I fail to see the difference in heating. I would think the soapstone in the IS would still allow for a softer, longer lasting heat.

I’m still leaning towards not moving the stove out into the room or off-setting the stove. Of course, after taking a second look at the picture the PH could me moved further left for a straighter exhaust pipe. Looks like there is plenty of room to move it further left, enough to give access to the loading door and still store wood to the right of the stove. Might as well move it forward some too then, that way you can use a “T” on the back of the stove and clean chimney from the inside of the home.

Still may not look the best sitting there off-set, but the ease of chimney cleaning would be worth it I suppose while allowing for the PH.

Even moving the stove I’d still take a long and hard look at a Blaze King 40. That is if heating is more important to you than looks. The deep stove box and rarely taking out ashes is a huge plus as is the thermostat. I’d say if you ever experienced the BK for just those two reasons alone, looks might be far less important for a die-hard wood burner.

PH is a looker for sure though.

 

The PH, IS and the BK are all good choices. Noticing you are Colorado, the pricing + shipping might make a BK more attractive. At one time back in 2012, I wondered what a BK or one of their smaller stoves would cost me, and the shipping charge alone back to the east coast was $urprisingly high.

I have no idea how Woodstock Soapstone charges for shipping as I just went up and got both of mine.

 

Well I’ve used a VC and now have the Ideal Steel; I would not go back to a VC.

realize the PH and IS are 2 different stoves.
The PH is cast Iron and soapstone and very pretty
The IS is a steel stove with added soapstone @ 1/2 $

I got the IS because of corner install at my home
Welcome to the FHC

 

We’ve run both the PH and the IS on the same wood, same house & flu. We’ve had the PH since 2012, and have burned more than 50 cord in it. We did beta-testing for Woodstock on the IS and AS. As a thank you for the testing they offered a price break on buying a new stove; we bought and later sold an AS as our plans evolved. We have a large (40x44) 2-story house with walkout basement. We burn 150g of heating oil per year in addition to the PH.

The stones inside the PH are not flimsy- we have only broken the small stone inside below the door opening. It was a simple repair. We have the new version air control installed, and have a pipe damper. Our draft is very strong, and before we changed the air controls we likely over fired the PH a few times. I have replaced several internal parts. Woodstock has assured me several times that the parts we’ve replaced are not typical of what other stove owners experience (we are burning hotter and more, I suspect). We are on our third set of andirons, for example. I enjoy taking things apart to see how they work, and their parts are reasonable price, and their repair documentation is great. Their overall service is truly exceptional.
The IS has many, many fewer parts. The air control is excellent and mechanically simple. I enjoyed burning 18” wood loaded “north - south” (loaded straight in).

A 20/21” stick is easier to load in the PH than the IS. More ash spills out when reloading the IS than the PH (neither are bad).

I like maintaining the PH door gasket better than the IS door.

The PH punches out more peak heat than the IS. The IS does the loooong slow burns better.

Both ash pans are great designs.

 

Nice write up Flamestead! Can I assume that 150g of oil goes mainly toward hot water showers and laundry? Maybe a little toward heat for some small part of the day?

I hope all is well in your beautiful part of the world. Ski season pretty soon, I hope to do a Okemo day or two.

Steve

 

To be able to slide either stove forward out of the fireplace will put more heat into the room and less into the surrounding stone.

 

If heating a “mass”ive hearth wall is a concern then why choose a soapstone stove? Then go with steel stove with a heat shield behind it and push all the heat into the room.

Me…I wouldn’t worry about heating the hearth with either stone or steel stove. It’s either let the heat go up it or let the cold come down it.

 

I would get the ash lip for the Progress Hybrid, which allows decreased clearance in the front of the stove. Then move the stove forward enough in the alcove to make loading convenient.

Then two options:
1- Get the rear heat shield, and you can hide your firewood behind the stove.
2- Skip the rear heat shield, and the heat radiated through the soapstone will warm the brick, and you'll get more thermal mass to help keep the house warm after the stove cools down. (Assuming that the brick makes enough of a shield behind whatever is behind it to meet code).

Disclaimer: I'm in my first year of running a PH, and really impressed by it. No experience with the steel stove. That being said, I'm discovering that there is a relationship between BTU's and mass. My 800 lb PH at 250 degrees warms my house noticably more than my 500 FireView did at 250 degrees.

 

There is indeed a relationship between BTU’s and mass.

I like to define it as “heat momentum”. Momentum is movement; in a his case heat energy is the movement and it acts like a heavy flywheel.

I’ve been using told (wink) that I put too much emphasis on mass with regard to stoves and that 300lbs isn’t enough to make a difference … then someone comes along and confirms my own experience wasn’t a fluke.


There’s more to it than just “what you lose on the front you gain in the end”. That would only be true if you completely let the stove go cold each burn cycle. We all know when old man winter sets in that’s not how it works. We keep the heat flowing, or we like to. That is, we keep the fuel in the stove before the stove and stove room drops too low in temperature. The stone mass acts as regulator of sorts, the next best thing to having a bi-metal thermostat on your stove, for less intense heat and more even heat output.


Stove mass equals heat momentum. Where this momentum (from the hot mass) shines and can easily go unnoticed is restoking the stove at tending time. The goal being to not let the stove temp drop below a certain level before refueling, keeping the “flywheel” turning taking less time and energy to “get back to speed”.

Because soapstone offers great heat momentum in good soft heat that is more consistent, this means more even and constant radiant heat coming from the stove into the room warming objects like the hearth wall behind it more evenly, which means the hearth itself will absorb and also radiate its own heat back into the living space more evenly.

I would want every ounce of weight I could get as the “flywheel” of radiant heat…the stove and the hearth. As long as it was safe to do so I would skip any rear heatshield in order to warm the additional hearth mass.

A professional along with your own judgment will determine the safety factor after consulting the regulation codes and required clearance to combustibles.

 

SloMoJoe i agree but my IS is over 750 pounds so the mass of the stoves are similar

 

I'm glad that someone else has a definition of this, as I've been struggling to understand and explain it.

The best analogy that I had come up with thus far is, say you are parked on the side of the road. A car passes by at 70 mph, then a truck passes by at the exact same speed. You will feel the difference, despite both vehicles going the same speed.

Canadian border VT I was referring to the several thousand pounds of brick that could potentially become thermal mass behind the stove, if a heat shield were skipped. In re-reading my comment, I exactly clear on that, so my bad there.