Catalytic vs non cat video

Yep, we are friends. And yep, if society fails (the big picture) then a cat. stove will soon become a 'it does not really need a cat.' stove and keep burning. Survival trumps the finer points of efficiency every single time.

And as always, it is fantastic that we all have choices!

 

Thank you to everyone for replying and giving me informatuon, insight and things to think about/consider.

Ive never seen an Ideal Steel in person, just pics (mainly on this site). So I assume the soapstone is inside the stove, like firebricks on other stoves? How do the soapstone that has the stone visible on the outside compare? Do they even out the heat even more?

The hybrid stoves....I assume they are made to run with the cat engaged or without the cat engaged, without worrying about messing up the cat? It seems like that may be a good thing, to have the option. If things were to ever get bad for some reason, having a non cat stove, or being able to safely and efficiently run without the cat engaged, seems lile it would be a good thing...in case you couldnt get a new cat.

Again, thanks to everyone who's chimed in...Ive read through, but am going back through to make sure I understand. To most on here this has become second nature, but to me it's a lot to process and think about..

 

So a cat stove can be safely run without the cat (if you had to), it just wont be as efficient...correct?

The hybrid stoves...are they made so that you can use the cat, or not use the cat..whichever you want? Or is there more to it than that?

 

Eckie yes the IS is soapstone lined and has soapstone covers over the legs. Some soapstone stoves are wrought iron and outside is stone. That type of stove is generally about 2x more expensive than a steel stove

 

If a stove comes equipped with a catalyst. Use it. Simple.

 

Routinely using a cat. stove without a cat. installed is probably not a great idea. What I meant when I agreed with Canadian Border VT was that in a pinch, a cat. stove with a failed cat. would just have to do the job. Some cat. stoves can be used safely in bypass mode, which means the cat. is entirely or partially bypassed, although they probably will not burn as cleanly as either a cat. stove with the bypass closed or a non- cat. stove (using the secondary burn which is not present in a cat. stove).

A hybrid stove uses a bypass also. But in addition to using the cat. for normal running, they also introduce additional air in the top of the stove exactly as a non- cat. EPA stove does and so functions in both ways, with a secondary burn (actual flames at the top of the stove burning the gasses the wood makes) and the cat. located after the secondary burn tube(s).

Brian

 

These hybrids have been out for awhile now and im wondering if the cats are lasting a little longer than a normal cat stoves 2 or so years since the cat shouldnt have to work as hard in a hybrid with the additional secondary burn?

The VC Dauntless is a new down draft stove I've been looking at and it can either be burned in a non cat mode or cat mode and passed 2020 EPA test as both. Top loading feature looks nice too.

 

If you don't really understand the science behind a catalyst or just don't want the extra step of stove monitoring ( which you probably should be doing anyway) or the extra expense that you have to pay for the advantages of a catalyst, then just buy a tube stove.
If you can and are willing to take advantage of the catalyst's capabilities then it is a viable option for you. But that doesn't mean it is the only option for anyone and everyone.


I rather doubt there's some mysterious magical compound in equivalently seasoned softwoods that impacts the life of a catalyst any more or less than hardwoods. I'm calling BS on that claim. Show me supportive data not hyperbole and long-established and ingrained myth.

 

Are you responding to someone mentioning some difference between hardwood and softwood regarding cat. life? I did not see anything in this thread referencing anything like that. ??

I think what you are saying here is correct, I just did not happen to ever see any reference or claim that softwood somehow extends the life of a cat.

 

All great advice here..I have had both and now have a hybrid stove.. I would suggest if you choose a cat stove pay close attention to how easily it can be accessed for cleaning and replacement. Some manufactures have them located in very hard to get to locations.

 

The guy in the video makes a comment about glossy papers and softwood.

 

I thought it was sap wood

 

Just listened for that part again, he definitely says glossy papers or softwood. Around 3:45.

Do the stoves that have soapstone on the outside even out the heat more than the ones that are soapstone inside covered by steel? I guess I'm wondering if the steel is a "harsher" heat. Don't know if that makes sense...

 

Give this a watch before you pull the trigger on the new VCs.


I'm a broken record with constantly bringing up I had an old Vigilant, and while I loved it... when I was ready to get a new stove, i didn't consider them for a moment.

 

Thanks RGrant . I had read some not so great things about VC, glad to see it on vid. I appreciate you being willing to say you had issues with a stove or brand. Seems like lots of folks are hesitant to do that...except for the people who want to bad mouth any brand that's not what they have (not directed to fhc folks).

Is Hearthstone a good brand? Seems like there are quite a few youtube vids on them..at least showing up in the list under the informational stove vids I've watched.

Any brands or models that folks recommend I stay away from? How about recommended brands, I know I'll hear woodstock and blaze king....

 

Yeah, I'm not pulling the trigger on the VC even though the guy that designed the Dauntless says the refractory is new and improved and different than the Encore and Defiant. He also said they ran through kiln dried 2x4's for months during testing with no damage but I'm still a bit skeptical. The down draft stoves in general seem finicky, too many moving parts and require a good hot coal bed to preform properly. VC makes some beautiful stoves and the top loading is a great feature especially for a guy that knees aren't what they used to be. The Dauntless just came out this year, it will be interesting to see the reviews. Meanwhile I'll be looking forward to burning my new no fuss steel firebox cast iron clad Jotul F45.

 

That would be amazing............and a long term goal.

 

I owned a solid stone stove for about 30 cords. If you close your eyes, you can not tell the difference between a 500 degree stove made of steel or one made of stone. If you run the stove for full time heat then getting it hot and keeping it hot makes all stove materials equal. If you burn occasionally then you will need to endure the slow warm up time of stone. The slower cool down time is okay but not the great thing the marketing wants you to think it is.

Stone looks cool. It’s pretty. I have switched to welded steel for higher performance and durability.

 

I need to clarify something about how aa cat is used. For a while when I first read about cats on here, it sounded quite technical and exact. The way I was reading things, was you have to be pecise when you engage the cat...and I kept wondering what do you do, how do you use the stove after you throw this lever...how and when can you reload now that you've started this "process"....cause to me it sounded like you've started something that had to be "rode" all the way to the end.

I happened upon a woodstock youtube vid yesterday, they were showing the startup from of one of their stoves, I believe it was the keystone. So they get the stove going, after a while engage the cat, adjust air. Shortly after they want more wood in...I was like Huh? I know some stoves, the cat lever blocks the door when it is engaged, not sure if thats the case with this model. So he opens the bypass, which I take to be the same as disengaging the cat, opens air intake, open the door and adds wood, close and get back to running. Gives it a few minutes to let that wood get rocking and re-engages the cat and adjusts air.

I know this is gonna sound simple stupid.... But that was new info to me. I thought once you engaged the cat, it was a done deal and was left alone till that load was done. I guess the most important timing aspect is getting up to a certain temp before the initial engage? I think I asked the question a while back on a different thread about how you do things after you engage the cat, but I guess I didnt understand the answer, or it wasnt answered for a complete ignorant noobs grasp....so the whole time ive been thinking this cat thing is exact and locks you in for "X" amount of time after you throw it. Ever have one of those simple duh-huh moments that just makes things click and changes your whole thought process / perception of something? This was a huge one for me....

Sorry so long but I felt I needed to explain...

 

BDF told me a long time ago you can “hot load” a cat stove do it all time..