Oversize/Extra Large Insert Help

A friend of mine from the gym was talking about a basement install he did and somewhere in the conversation mentioned that he needed a flue liner heater or something to that effect. I hadn't heard of one and asked him what it was- essentially it is some element that preheats the chimney stack so that the burner can draft appropriately. I had never heard of it so I asked him how he knew he needed one because the whole thing was just being installed. He said the installer told him he needed one. I asked "is there any chance that he just so happened to be selling those?" Evidently, yes.
My point isn't that the flue heater is a bad idea or that my buddy didn't need one- but based on what information was he making this purchase? It sounded to me like he was being upsold. Maybe he did really need it.... or maybe my friend of means got taken for a ride, who knows.
But perhaps a second opinion is worth getting before pulling the trigger on that stuff.
DIY stuff can at times really be worth it too.

 

So here is the progress report. The chimney sweep has not produced a quote to do the zero clearance fireplace install, so nothing there other than the warning that it will be very expensive. I am going to get another quote from a local stove shop to see if they can find a way to install free standing stoves, and for their preferred zero clearance, the large Apex unit from Fireplacex.

It seems like rather than installing a new chimney for a zero clearance, I could rip out the prefab fireplaces and pull insulated liner through the existing chimney. It would be super well insulated from combustibles. Does that seem reasonable? Seems like it would save money.

I called Lamppa to ask about using a VF100 to feed two separate HVAC systems, Daryl said “I dunno.” They have never heard of anyone using a single wood furnace to feed two heat pump furnaces. Admittedly it would require some advanced systems engineering work, like using a multi-zone controller to modulate motorized dampers feeding each system. Or just manually adjusting two dampers to balance airflow. But it seems like the VF100 blower might get deadheaded if both heat pump furnaces kick on and supply pressure to both manifolds fighting the VF blower.

In short, there is no simple or easily affordable answer yet.

 

You cannot tear out the old fireplaces and just line the existing chimneys. They are supported by those fireplaces

 

BKVP Help needed. I have been calling Blaze King to confirm the following thought but nobody ever picks up or calls back when I leave a message.

brenndatomu BHoller et al., could you read this to see what you think?

I was looking through the manual for both inserts, and the following is in both installation instructions:

"This insert may be installed into a compliant factory built fi replace providing the chimney is lined from the outlet of the insert to the top of the chimney using an insulated stainless steel liner which meets UL-127 or ULC-S610. The liner must be securely attached to both the insert and the chimney top."

If I am reading this correctly, as long as the prefab is UL-127 compliant and a liner is pulled and secured to the cap and the stove that is UL-127 compliant, that they can be installed in prefabs? If so, that would be the most amazing news!

Thanks again for the help all!

 

That is for sure the only way to interpret the manual. This is awesome news for you!
The only pause I have is the term “compliant factory build fireplace” - is there a particular subset of factory fireplaces? I might be over thinking it. But since it doesn’t list some particular class of prefab stove... this seems awesome. Just get the right piping and I think you’re in business.

 

Oh man! Don't get my hopes up! Calling BK again to see if I can get the support guy on the phone. Might be my lucky day!

 

None of that over rides the fireplaces manual. And if you do something the fireplace manual says you can't then it is no longer compliant. Meaning the stove manufacturer is covering their azz and is not liable.

 

Not trying to get your hopes up or to let you down either for that matter- just want to make sure that you're getting the right information from your sources- I know that you have the manual for the Desa GM42 and if for some odd reason you lost it I'll link the manual here. So I looked online in a few places for installing a wood burning insert into a pre fabricated fireplace and I've found a few different responses as I'm sure you can imagine, and have seen...
One place in Eugene, Oregon writes on their website:

"A fireplace insert is placed inside of an existing masonry or pre-fabricated wood burning fireplace and may be powered by gas, wood, pellets, or electricity. This is an ideal solution for anyone who has an existing open fireplace and chimney. It will significantly improve both fuel efficiency and heat output.

As an authorized dealer for the manufacturers below we provide qualified installations and aftermarket service. Explore their websites and discover your preferred fireplace insert or contact us directly and let us guide you through the process."

If you can't get through to anyone at BK in the next little bit, maybe give these folks a call and explain your situation. Per their website it sounds like they have experience with this type of installation. Plus perhaps you could send them the manual for the fireplace you have now and they could tell you if a replacement would be suitable.

 

After reading through this thread from top to bottom; my suggestion is to save your nickels and dimes until you can afford to redo the existing fireplaces; pulling them out, and opening up the chase and putting in class A ss chimney. There is a thread on here somewhere when a member redid his setup and it was nice in the end. He pulled out the fireplace and turned it into an alcove for the stove to sit into and it was pretty. The chase is just covered in stucco and if you had the money, you could put up prefab stone or brick on the outside of the chase that would really make the "chimney" look a whole lot nicer and make the house itself a whole lot more attractive. You could go ahead and install the class a chimney for the upper fireplace even if you could not afford to redo both at the same time. Plus, with a nice stove with a glass front, you get both the heat of a stove but the look of the fire burning for those "romantic" nights sitting in front watching the fire burn. While you are waiting to be able to redo the fireplaces proper; you cut and stack wood when you can as to be ready for when you can start burning. I agree with you on the pellet stove; shame to have 10 acres of wood that you could be using to heat your home and it just standing there.

 

The manual clearly says
"
WARNING: Do not install a
fireplace insert in this box unless
the manufacturer's instructions
with the insert specifically state
this fireplace has been tested for use with this insert"

So unless the instruction manual for the insert in question says that you can't do it.

 

I am in full agreement that it would be ideal to redo the entire chase and both fireplaces/chimneys. However, the quotes to do so were $28k or more. Which does nothing to the facade on the outside, and the quotes specificied air cooled pipe so the quotes would go up from there. Back to square one. Thank you for the input, I really appreciate it!

 

I had forgotten about that clause, thank you for pointing it out. I was re-reading the manual when you both posted. Thank you for the help and input!!!!

Edit: brenndatomu even posted an image of that statement on the first page! At least I won't get an overinflated ego for my incredible memory and intelligence!

 

OK. I do everything myself; my cost is the materials needed as I am the labour. I can see where $28 thousand for doing this would hinder things. I installed an outside class A SS chimney myself. I opened the wall from the outside, framed out for the through the wall chimney kit and then closed it all back up; I have vinyl siding. Class A chimney goes together with a drop in and twist and then you put a locking band in place. Maybe for heat you could install a basement furnace and then keep the fireplaces for the few times you might want a romantic fireplace fire; they can be closed off with a nice glass front to keep the heat from going up the chimney. Have a chimney erection party to get the Class A chimney installed, hook it to your wood furnace and enjoy.

 

This is how I know the FHC folks are smarter than me. I feel pretty confident in my ability to do some things, but not carpentry/construction and masonry. I am much better with plumbing, wiring and control systems.

 

Maybe we can have a GtG at your house for installing your chimney; that is a thought.

 

Sorry, wife had knee replacement and I've been all consumed.

First....no one answered our phones? What time of day? We have VM, although a person will answer 7:30 am- 4:59 pm. Please get back to me.

Bholler is correct. If the manual states as indicated, it's a no go.

Sorry for delay in responding.

To all that read this....a quick email to my regular email would get quicker response as I am often at 30k feet with a guy named Delta. That email is [email protected]

Thanks

 

Ah that explains it! I hope your wife’s knee surgery and recovery went/go very well! I should have said nobody picks up after the receptionist, I only got direct to VM after hours. I left a VM and a message with the receptionist. I wish they had explained that you were dealing with the surgery as well as your normal responsibilities.

The kind folks of FHC reminded me that they already answered my question for you earlier in the thread! My apologies to all, I wish I had an excuse!

Thank you for the reply here, Happy Holidays, and hope your wife is feeling better soon!

 

Thank you...

 

I feel the need to correct this post, I did not accurately state what happened when I called BK. After rereading what I wrote I understand why BKVP was annoyed after my post. I called BK five times over about a week. I was directed to call later or leave a message, and if it was after hours I got VM. I think I left two voice messages. What happened, as noted above, was that he was dealing with much more serious issues but I was not informed that there would be a delay due to totally reasonable circumstances. Please understand that BK is one of the three or four companies I most respect in that market, so please do not see it as an issue with customer service. It was mostly due to my eagerness to purchase BK products to heat my home, which I am upset that I cannot do in the end!