At the end of last burning season, I had to add water to the owb a few times, with increasing frequency. Been hunting the leak, but I believe it's under ground, and with the age on the boiler itself, I won't be replacing the lines. It looks like we'll be joining the ranks of indoor burners soon. Even if I find the leak in a convenient place, I know we're on the clock with this owb, and quite frankly I'd like some of my time back - 15 cord a year catches up with a guy after a while. So either this year or next we'll be switching to an indoor wood burner. We're looking hard at the Woodstock Progress and Ideal Steel models, but I'm concerned about having a wear item other than gaskets on a stove. I have read a lot here regarding both models, and see on their website that Woodstock offers a 3 year warranty, pro rated to six years. I'd love to hear feedback from the trusted contingent here on FHC on real world cat life. This will be the primary (only) heat source, and we usually heat from September-ish through May, so it will see some hours. There's an oil burner down in the basement some place, but other than function checks we don't use it, and don't want to. Thanks in advance!
My own experience with two different cat. based stoves has been that a new cat. is hyperactive for about 100- 200 hours (open a book of matches near the stove and the cat. lights Not that good but close, newspaper and kindling will light a brand- new cat.). Then they decline very slowly for a LOT of hours. I am a bit south and east of you in RI where I believe it is a bit milder, and we use wood heat almost exclusively (exclusively until a new boiler installed two years ago). Cats used to last about 1 1/2 years, retaining good efficiency but would be starting to get slugging starting. A new replacement cat was very, very noticeable when changed. But also, two years ago, I installed a new, much taller SS insulated chimney (DuraVent, 6", about 25' tall) during a major house renovation (read: rebuild). This past winter, at around the 1 1/2 year mark, I did change out the combustor even though the one I was using seemed more 'perky' than the usual cat. at that age and sure enough, the new one was not all that much perkier, indicating the old one was still working well. I am attributing this to a much, much stronger draft which aids in getting the heat to and into the cat. to help light it off. At any rate, in the real world, it does not seem as though cats. last the 6 to 10 years most manufacturers claim, or at least they are not working very well after less than half of that period. So I would plan on changing combustors every two years at a minimum to keep the stove working at top efficiency and just write off the cost as part of the cost of burning wood. One thing to check very carefully before buying a cat. or hybrid stove is the PRICE and guarantee of the cat. The cheapest cats. are just over $100 but it is common for larger stoves to use an approx. $350 cat. and that will make a big difference over 10 or 15 years of stove use. A cat. for an Woodstock Ideal Steel is $175 but the first replacement is 'on them' as it is in the outright replacement time. So it is just under $100 / year to maintain the stove in tip- top running condition. You could stretch that time out but will burn more wood and burn dirtier as time goes by Another thing to check is how difficult it is to remove and clean or replace the cat. To my knowledge, Woodstock has the huge advantage here: lift the stove top (no tools, no fasteners, just gravity), lift and remove the radiator (again just gravity) then grab and remove the combustor (still just gravity). Not a single fastener, tool or any prying or bad words needed. Literally a lift and remove deal. It can even be done while the stove is running if at the end of a burn so you do not fill the house with smoke! Compare that to other stoves where combustors are often behind shields held in with rusty screws, then a cat. frame retainer, also held in with corroded, sometimes frozen screws. And do not forget that even with a non- cat. stove, there is still maintenance: the tubes burn out, warp and sag. The insulation blanket at the top of some stoves deteriorates and needs to be replaced occasionally. Perhaps less expensive than a cat. (and perhaps not) but the stove is also less efficient and so will consume more wood even when brand new. That is my opinion and experience using catalytic combustors. It may not be right, but at least it was cheap. Best of luck which ever way you go, Brian
Thanks for the reminder. My cat has run for 3 seasons and should be replaced. It’s still working but isn’t as effective. The cat in the Progress is a very simple item to clean and or replace and the return you get for maintaining the cat makes it worth the little effort. Cleaning the Pacific Energy T6 in the basement takes more effort and time than the Progress. Best of luck in your stove search. There might be a Progress still for sale in the classified section.
I'm starting to build and have decided on a cat stove (Ideal Steel) after countless hours of reading this forum. My conclusion, which is about as weighty as smoke from a chimney, is the cat will pay for itself, plus give me all night burns. I'm assuming (dangerous) that all else being equal, a cat stove will extract more heat from a given amount of wood than a non-cat. Therefore, the cost of combuster replacement is offset by needing less wood. Less wood saves chainsaw/splitter fuel, oil, replacement chains, not to mention labor & time. These costs aren't noticed as they are spread out over time. Longer, more even burns are a bonus and cleaner burns mean more friendly to the environment. None of this is personal, real-world data, just research conclusions that brought me to my decision. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
I believe 2-3 years (in my climte) is the upper limit burning full time. As BDF mentioned, you're limping it through well before it gets replaced. $100 per year is a great investment when compared to an OWB using 15 cords. 15 cords is a 3-4 year supply for me .
Ok I burn from October to April. My cat lasted a little over two years. I would have replaced it at the beginning of the second burn season. Cat was backordered at that time. So I replaced at Christmas and I got to spare. So I think a 2 year life expectancy on an ideal steel stove is about standard. Backwoods Savage. Has a Woodstock soapstone and he could chime in here.. Also Well Seasoned, who has seen my house and stove. Also works for a stove company so maybe his Insight here could be valuable all so.
In the first place, someone or maybe a few guys posted what they believe to be negatives about Woodstock stoves and they tried very hard to make it sound as if replacing a catalyst would break the bank. To me it is simple maintenance and we'll simply do it whenever it needs to be done. It is not enough to break me nor make any company rich so we just do it when it needs done. How long will they last? Like most things, it depends. It depends a lot on how the stove is operated and what kind of wood is being burned. If you want to change them a lot or more often, burn green wood. Plain and simple, moisture is the worst thing for a catalyst. This is why it is always best to wait a bit before engaging the cat after refilling the stove. Also it depends on how often you clean the cat, which is a very simple thing to do and takes 2-3 minutes. However, it also does help a lot to do a more thorough cleaning (vinegar bath), usually in the summer when you do your annual cleaning job along with changing any gaskets or other maintenance. As others have stated, we change out our cats usually around the 3 year mark. Even at $175 for a catalyst, that amounts to $55 per year and that to me is cheap maintenance. To help offset this, we've found that gaskets do not need to be changed very often in Woodstock stoves. Changing gaskets does not cost much but can be a pain to do; at least I do not like the job. btw, Brian mentioned changing the cats is easy in these stoves. In ours, it is simply lift the lid and then lift out the cat. That's all there is to it. Naturally the manual says wait until the stove is cold but we never have. We usually let the coals burn down mostly so the stove isn't too hot and then wearing heavy gloves, lift out the cat. I take it outside on the porch and just brush the fly ash off. If it is really thick inside the cells, I'll use the canned air you buy at office supply stores to blow it out. Even then though, I don't hold the can right next to the cat as I do not wish to loosen any of the precious metals that makes up the cat; so go easy. Now what about when the cat is not working so well? First off we do the vinegar bath, or rather vinegar spray. If that does not improve the performance then the cat is probably toward the end of its life. But, you can still use it. We've found that the worst part when the cats are getting worn out is that it takes longer for them to light off but it is not a big problem. One more think to keep in mind is that Woodstock is working on improving the cats and I think something will be happening with them very soon.
BigPapi When I read the title I was expecting a bunch of pictures of house cats laying around near the wood stove doing nothing!
Thanks Dennis, BigPapi , Dennis has similar stove to progress, I have an Ideal steel, as does BDF who I refer to as the ideal Steel guru here. When I got my cats in January the company was very frustrated in the delay, called and emailed several times and were discussing making them in house. My old cat worked just got less heat from it as it was dying..
Lots of sound advice here. Getting the right stove is so important to your heating needs and satisfaction. Giving the way things are going with regulations etc, I would find it hard to not to go in this direction when you are replacing a system.
I have a Fireview and and a Absolute in my home today. The Fv is going on year 6 this coming year. I clean it with the vinegar spray half way through a 3 cord season in my 1600sq ft home. I'm not planning on replacing it this year, But won't mind if I need to. Absolute is going on year 2, so I use the same maintenance routine and love the huge long burns I get with the "monster in the basement". Previously to these stoves. I had a Garrison 1, big black steel box, for 30 years, and also a CDW with a cat for 25 of those in the family room (basement). CAT stoves rock. Maintenance is never an issue. If you live in New England, so close to the Lebanon where WS Stoves are born, they need to be on the list. I have mutliple to friends that own IS and Progress stoves and the heat they get from those, heats 2500sq ft without breaking a sweat. On the real below zero days I find my Fv is at it's redline, (maybe I do need a new cat) but every once in a while I need new tires on the car too.
I run a Blazeking and have found two years to be about my limit too. Our stove runs24-7 from late october through early april. If it gets too hot we open windows....
For sure BigPapi you should take the time to visit the Woodstock factory. It is not that far from you and the visit will give you a good introduction to the Woodstock stoves. In addition, watch for the Open House they will be having this fall and probably some super prices then too.
I’ll also add a data point for cat life from a full time burner, September to June. We get two years and maybe a little more before the cat is shot. Blaze king princess. Cats are cheap, like 185$ shipped with a new gasket installed. The manufacturer of the cat rates them for 10000-12000 hours which is about two years for full time burners. Bk cats are removed and installed with no tools, bolts, etc. but you don’t remove it until you have a new one with a new gasket because it does require a new gasket 7$ to install. I’ve never bought a new gasket, just replace the cat. Both Woodstock and blaze king make excellent stoves. Efficient and clean burning. A stove from either company is suitable for full time heating.
All of these people are exactly correct. I just tried to drag mine through year 4 and it’s completely dead. Should have replaced it after year 3.
Wow, so much information here! I can live with three years, or two if it comes to it. The consensus seems to be two year replacement life for the very best peroformance, but three is acceptable. I've read that running a cat stove without the cat inserted can cause overheating of other internal parts, leading to warping. If for some reason the cat dies and a replacement is not available, is the stove safe to operate with the dead cat in place? Obviously efficiency would suffer hard, but are parts, property, or people in jeopardy? I know I'm over thinking it, but I've got some " prepper" blood, can't help it. ☺Would the secondary tubes still function? Thank you for the outpouring of experiences!
BigPapi Yes you can run it with a weak cat.. But you need to wait until temps are higher for it to engage..
Highbeam, with the hybrid models, I thought they also had provisions in the form of tubes for a secondary burn. I will have to take a closer look at the schematics! Thanks for the knowledge!
