Okay here we go again. Still considering a purchase. I’ve read quite a bit about Heatmaster & Crown Royal but I’ve also been hearing some decent reviews on Polar. Anyone have any info or experience with them? Sorry to beat a dead horse with all these threads but I’m just trying to make the best decision. Thanks all.
You are comparing apples and oranges when comparing a G10000 to a G3. A G7000 would be a better comparison. What are your current heat loads now ? And what kind of pipe do you have in the ground.
Can't go wrong with heatmaster, great company to deal with How are the local dealers for each to deal with?
I was just comparing the biggest models each company carry’s. Maybe the 7000 is closer spec wise to the G3 I’m currently heating 2 farm houses totaling about 3800 sq.ft. or so plus a small heater in our small milk house and domestic hot water in all those buildings. I’m using thermopex pipe hooked to a Central Boiler 6048. The stove sits midway between the 2 houses. Approximately 150’ from one house & 180’ from the other. The 6048 does a great job of meeting our demands other than requiring a tremendous amount of firewood. As I age I’m looking to reduce my woodcutting chores a bit.
I’ve got a new Heatmaster dealer in my area who actually has a G10000 in stock. I believe I will be his first sale if I purchase it. Closest Polar dealer is about 90 minutes away.
Sounds like you have good pipe in the ground. I’d lean towards a G7000 for what you are wanting to heat. Gassers like to be run hard, and they are more efficient when run harder. If the houses are well insulated I’d bet a G4000 would work. Dealers tend to oversize things in the HVAC world because they don’t want call backs from customers because their house(s) are hot or cold. If you know your BTU loads, and the G7000 can’t meet those loads then I’d get a G10000. I’d highly recommend watching some of Marty’s videos on YouTube. He really knows his stuff. You will need dry wood for all of the boilers you are looking at.
If these boilers are Lambda controlled its a hard choice ,but if one is and the other is not the one that's Lambda will burn less wood . Also boilers that run clean are more efficient so if one boiler is easy to clean it gets cleaned more often it will end up burning less wood. It can't be stressed enough , dry wood is important .
That could potentially be a good match for a G7000...but it depends on the actual heat load of the houses, and how much hot water you use in the milk house...that can be quite a load on some farms! But if each one of these loads is high, a G10000 would be a better match, and boot Polar right out of the running too. Dad and brother were really nervous about going from a 6048, to a G10000, as far as how much smaller it is, physically, the firebox size, and the rated BTU output (CB just pulled falsely high numbers outta their butts on those old boilers though) they can't make up BTU numbers now with the EPA testing though! Last year the G10k proved to be more than adequate for the job though...and now that we have the new lines in the ground this year, I 100% believe a G7k would have done the job! Those old lines were garbage! Totally soaked foam...like 8' sections weighed 50lbs...and this was in the driest part of the summer...ground was parched! Just changing the boiler out cut things down from an estimated 22 cords/yr, down to ~11...and we fully expect another 3-4 cords to drop off this year with the new line in the ground! (they have a total of roughly 650' of line ($$$) between the 4 buildings they heat) My brother jotted down the total "firing" hours from last year (the computer tracks it) now we'll see what it is this year...I'm sure the weather will vary some, but a after few years we should be able to get a feel for the new "normal", and hopefully see how much the new lines help. The old lines were something that CB actually offered back in '01, it was just pex lines pulled into a foam sleeve, 6" OD, 3" ID, each foam piece 8' long and just duct taped together, then the whole thing pulled into an 8" ABS corrugated tile and buried...wasn't very deep either...maybe 2' to the bottom of the ditch? I can see why they don't offer that now...really bad idea!! The HM is, the Polar is not. Closer, and in stock...hmmm...
The boilers that you have listed are not lambda controlled. Gasification boilers need storage. They have to run full blast to gasify and gain their efficient burn, and I will stress again that they need dry wood 15 to 20% moisture content to succeed. These boilers represent a bigger investment but in efficiency and clean burning, they are in my opinion are the best. This boiler we called the pig as it burned 22 cords of Douglas fir in one year! Over 39 years it would have burned 858 cords !!! This boiler is a three pass downdrafter which burned 16 cords year. When storage was added, it dropped the figure to 10 cords a year. Over 39 years at best, it would be only 390 cords. This is the Jetstream which burned 4 cords a year. Over 39 years it was 156 cords. 156 versa 858 cords. Woodwidow was not happy when I bought the Jetstream in 1983 as it cost $4,500 when a Fisher stove could be had for $350. The gasification boiler can be efficient but only obtains this efficiency when run wide open. When left in standby mode, they just choke themselves with creosote. The boilers you are looking at are going to need storage (1,000 gallons). Over the long haul, you're going to need heat storage.
The HeatMaster G series is since 2020....and has 274 gallons storage on board (G10k) not enough, but they do still manage to work pretty well like that... I'm sure more storage would make it even better.
You are definitely right about them creosoting up when idling. I’ve only ran my G4000 a week and there was creosote 3/4 thick in the corners of my boiler. Unfortunately it’s the nature of the beast. Spent time with a torch and putty knife cleaning it up. I’ll agree with you all day long that a IWB and storage is the best way to turn a BTU into useable heat. However, folks like myself don’t want the mess, and flame source in our dwelling. Been down that road more than once. I also don’t have the room in my basement for storage tanks either. Yep, you can build or put it in another building put that’s not feasible for a lot of folks. I don’t have 30 - 40 k in cash laying around to build, and concrete a decent size building and then put a 15k boiler with storage in it. If you do have that kind of cash laying around, you are more than likely not going to be heating your house with wood. That’s why a gasification OWB is the next best thing IMHO. The mess is outside and I don’t need a building either.
Didn’t think about the OP using a lot of hot water when I mentioned a G4000. Making hot water uses a ton of BTU’s from what I’ve heard. I’ll know personally in a few weeks. To the OP, I think you need to figure you heat loads out and size the boiler to those needs. I’m just arm chair quarter backing it, and I don’t want to lead you in incorrect direction.
From what I understand that will get better with colder weather...in the mean time just make sure not to overload the firebox...12 hour loads only, but I'm sure you have heard/read that already.
My GS400 gets some creosote in the firebox during mild weather. If it gets bad enough I just turn it off and let it get down to 100 then turn it back on. That long hard burn usually burns it off or makes it flaky enough to scrape easily.
Good call. Hadn’t thought about doing this. My only apprehension would be having return water below 140 which causes condensation on the firebox. I posted the question on the Facebook Heatmaster group and the consensus seemed to be to make sure and scrape the corners when loading. I haven’t been doing that.
I think that mainly applies to normal operation...not so much if you are letting the water temp drop by not reloading (not actively burning)...and even if it does, it's not the way you normally operate, and everything will be dried up after the procedure
I haven't had any issues. I burn daily year round... In the summer dropping well below 140. Literally 100s of times an no problem.
I wonder if its less of an issue for modern OWB gassers, since they are kinda designed to deal with having lots of creosote in the upper firebox? I know the whole return water temp thing was an issue on old school boilers for sure.
Definitely. I wonder if you have records of what it takes to heat those buildings with fossil fuel, or electric Farmchuck ? You can calculate BTU load from that info pretty easily...
I always thought it was more of an issue for indoor natural gas boilers with hardly any water jacket getting condensation in the heat exchanger on low return temps
