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Fire Bricks , All The same ???

Discussion in 'Modern EPA Stoves and Fireplaces' started by HDRock, Nov 24, 2014.

  1. HDRock

    HDRock

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    I watched a vid on the Lopi site ,they say their stock bricks are a cut above and are heavier than most .
    So if want to buy new bricks should I get them from the dealer or are other ones like ,US Stove , Vogelzang just as good ??
    Whatcha think
     
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  2. Grizzly Adam

    Grizzly Adam null

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    I've never had ones fall to rubble like the ones I got from USSC.
     
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  3. jackel440

    jackel440

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    There are all types of refractory brick.Different hardness and sizes available.
    I used hard brick in my gasifier that it was all my diamond blade wanted to do to cut it.
    I bought mine through Refractory Engineering in Indianapolis,IN.They supply brick, K wool ,and alloy fixtures for our heat treat furnaces for Chrysler.I've rebuilt lots of old carburizing furnaces over the years.
     
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  4. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1

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    Some stoves have firebricks that have a higher insulative properties usually called pumice bricks. But most stoves have firebricks that are more standard type fire bricks as they are more durable but have less of a R-value. As these secondary air stoves the main idea is being able to build heat up in the firebox and maintain the heat easily or more easily at lower burn rates. Pumice bricks are not as durable. I think there are other kinds of bricks that have materials in them to make them more heat reflective. Being able to reflect heat is another trick other than just plain insulation value called R-Value. Also there are ceramic coatings that you can get from the kiln industry that are supposed to provide more heat reflection of radiated heat to radiate heat back into the firebox area to get a more efficient burn at lower input primary air settings during low burn rates of your stove. As most these stoves are designed to radiate heat out the front thru the glass then out the top off the stove as the hot gases exit on the way to the rear of the stove to the flue collar then up the flue. As another aspect is being able to keep the firebox super heated for an efficient burn allows there to be very little air injected into the box at these super high firebox temps allowing for a slower air flow which means longer residual time of the heated gases flowing thru the stove , thus more time for more heat to be radiated out the top and front of the stove. As you notice most of these stoves have an almost complete coverage of fire brick in the fire box to provide an insulated firebox then they have a ceramic baffle plate to provide insulative baffle plate and also a additional ceramic blanket on top of the ceramic baffle plate which provides insulation and heat reflection.
     
  5. Daryl

    Daryl

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    Ace Hardware.

    Though...I don't have a stove. But they work well in a fire pit.
     
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  6. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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    I appreciate your info packed post. I have a new EPA fireplace and its soooo different than my very old one. I understand better now. Great info!
     
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  7. Fyrebug

    Fyrebug

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    There was a heated and nasty debate about this a while back on another forum.

    Actually, Firebricks make very little difference on how the stove burns if any. If it did, EPA would not allow a MFG to switch from one brick type to another once the stove is certified. But as it is they dont care.

    I used to work at SBI (Osburn, Drolet, PSG brands etc...) and the lab guys did an exhaustive study on this. Where bricks type make somewhat of a smallish difference is if they are used as a baffle (pumice vs solid bricks as a baffle). Other wise the net result of the type of bricks you use is 0% on performance.

    I now work for an Industrial forge who use some nasty multi tonnage hammers. (if you want to see a vid of the process check out - ). We use some ovens to heat up the metal. Because of the temperature reached in those applications the bricks will make somewhat of a difference. But in a wood oven there are no gains in performance.

    So what's the bottom line for a wood stove? A wood stove is heavy. From a MFG point of view, it's better to lighten up the unit to save on shipping. You do that by using pumice bricks. The side benefit to a MFG is the opportunity to sell more bricks as a replacement item since pumice do not last as long as the heavy bricks. If you are a smart MFG, you get your marketing dept make claim the pumice bricks have a higher R value (technically correct) therefore their stoves are better, right?

    Personally, I would much rather use heavy bricks since they will last much longer and take a beating and performance is not affected either way. .

    Hope this helped.
     
  8. redneckdan

    redneckdan

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    Like he said^. For an EPA stove aplication there is not a huge difference. Get into gasifiers and it starts to matter. I deal with refractory on a multizone taconite pellet induating machine. Hotest temp is in the 2500F neighborhood, 24/7 for 11 months of the year continous. Thats when refractory makes a huge huge difference.
     
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  9. raybonz

    raybonz Moderator

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    My T-5 came with the lightweight pumice bricks and I had to replace the bricks in the back of the stove.. These bricks are very soft and don't hold up if hit with firewood! I don't tend to slam the wood in either but they all broke.. Went to TSC and they had the hard and heavy ceramic bricks so I replaced the back pumice bricks with these and they work just as well and are holding up well too.. Think they were around $2.00 each.. They were a tad bigger so I ground them down a little with an angle grinder with a masonry wheel.. The side pumice bricks are eroding just from adding wood to the stove but are still OK.. I wouldn't hesitate to use the ceramic bricks again..

    Ray
     
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  10. PullinMyPoulan

    PullinMyPoulan

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    Fyrebug that was an AWESOME video looks like fun place to work
     
  11. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1

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    Welcome back Fyrebug.

    I put 1/4 inch ceramic insulation behind my firebrick in the stove I previously had and on top of the baffle ceramic board , added another 3 layers of 1/4 inch ceramic blanket on top of the already 1/2 inch that came with that stove. Of the 3 extra layers I added the one layer sandwiched inbetween the other two layers I wrapped it with a heavy duty aluminum foil.

    Here is what I got , easier start ups as the stove heated up quicker. I could lower my primary input air a little lower for a slower burn and still maintain secondaries.

    It was a slight improvement but would I do it again most likely not.
     
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  12. Fyrebug

    Fyrebug

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    Thanks but its noisy, dusty & hot most of the time. Just the same it is interesting to watch. The hammer operators get paid the most in the plant because of the wear & tear & concentration required for the job. It takes over a year to train a hammer operator to the point he can be left alone to operate it. It a combination of science, hearing, feel and voodoo!

    One of the older guy in the video has 35 years experience on the hammer and is probably the best hammer guy in North America.[/QUOTE]
     
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  13. Fyrebug

    Fyrebug

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    Totally agree that adding more insulation will affect performance. Sometimes for the better. Adding too much insulation might be counterproductive as it may damage components, reduce burn time & overheated flue. That's the thing with wood burning, there are never any definitive answers since everything is a variable: fuel, humidity, draft etc... so what might work for one user might not work for another.
     
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  14. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1

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    Thanks for the info Fyrebug , Hope you stick around more as we could use your expertise.
     
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  15. HDRock

    HDRock

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    I should have made this clear in my original post , the main thing I am concerned with are the 4 bricks on the top which is the only thing used for my baffle in the top of the Lopi stove, so therefore I figured it might make a difference.
    How do I know the difference between the bricks I might be looking at to buy whatever they are pumice or whatever?
    Any recommendations of a particular brick that might be the best for this situation and where to buy them?
    I'm not really concerned about the other bricks in the firebox because I figured they wouldn't make much difference there
     
  16. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1

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  17. raybonz

    raybonz Moderator

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    I have seen the Lopi and they use the hard and heavy ceramic firebricks.. Ceramic firebricks have a smooth surface and are heavy and dense.. Pumice bricks weigh a fraction of this and have a rough porous surface and very soft.. Ceramic firebricks are easy to find and probably cheaper too.. Personally I'd stay with the bricks that Lopi uses as they should last forever.. People with the soft ceramic fireboard tend to replace them much more often and at much greater cost.. I like that Lopi keeps their stoves simple and low cost to maintain!

    Ray