Englander Fire Door Cracked Glass but Bolts are Frozen & Broken! - Drill & 10-32 ReTap!!!

Hello

Did this happen to you? This is cast iron!
Also these Englander fire doors are not available separately!
Well this old Englander door was in rough shape and the glass was cracked. It cleaned up well but the original glass bracket bolts were a disaster! So rusty & frozen that one broke off and they all would not budge! ! !

Therefore, We took out the titanium drill bits and started drilling! I could only save one hole but since the bracket has an elongated slot it is easy to drill another hole next to the bad hole. Then the bad hole can be filled with JB weld or just high temp RTV.

Of course, the holes, the bolts and threads get ruined. So using some 5/32 titanium bits, a DeWalt 10-32 Tap and Die and a 10-32 1/2 inch long bolt with split lock washer does the trick! Just drill and tap deep enough without going through the front!

Pic 1 - Englander 25-PDVC fire door
Pic 2 - Drilling out the bolt with Titanium Drill bit
pic 3 - Tap some new 10-32 threads with DeWalt Tap & Die set.
Pic 4 - Bolt fits - 5-32 Drill bit and 10-32 nut & bolt pack from Home Depot
Pic 5 - Done - The new bolts hold the bar down, time to install the glass and glass gasket.

 

Thanks for the reminder about never seize.
I agree on the screws, I just picked up those in a pinch just to see if those sizes would work.

 

Good info Jay, Thanks
Got the glass and gasket in, dry moly on the threads and some paint on, so it is looking better.

 

The Whitfield Prodigy I'm rebuilding had two screws busted off and the rest would not even budge.

The heads just rounded off and no amount of "Skunk pizz" was helping.

Soooo, ground the heads off to get the clips and the rest of the carnage out of the way.

Flushed everything up nicely to reveal the screws in the casting.

Now its time to drill out the old screws, then re-tap the holes.

The best drill bit is a COBALT steel, as these will drill the original self tapping screws out readily.

Using a HIGH SPEED steel tap is best. The CARBON steel taps sold by most hardware stores are not gonna cut it, and will break easily.

Somebody mentioned copper never seaze.

Either the silver or the copper is great stuff.

Using hardened Allen head screws with small washers is a good idea.

Phillips head, straight screw driver head or hex washer headed types are just too flimsy.

The factories are fond of the Washer headed self tapping type screws.

These are fast and easy the first time through on the assembly line. but are pretty much useless after a few years in the hellish environment of the firebox.

If the unit has sat in a damp place and old MA RUST has gotten her grubbies in the mix, All bets are off of getting the screws out without major work.


IF.... You have good access to the screw locations (Flat area with a bit of room)

Get a piece of 1/4 inch thick steel flat bar that can lay across the area where the screws are located.

Drill a tap drill sized hole through the steel bar (best done in a drill press to keep the hole perpendicular)

Lay the bar on the stove door, align the hole with the old screw (ground off flush) and then clamp the bar to the door.

Now you can easily (General term) drill out the old screw.

Tapping is easy, go slow and keep the tap straight.

Having some good tapping fluid is a real ++++++

WD-40 will work, but there are better things.

Most hardware stores will have tapping fluid in small bottles.

Once the holes are tapped, then flush with Brake Kleen to remove the debris from the hole and blow out with air.

My guess is that the manuf's use a jig that fits the stove door to locate the original holes, and drill them prior to assembly.

Likely the doors are completed in a "Sub Assembly" department before they meet up with the stove they will go on.

Rebuilding these beasts is far different than working with fresh iron.


Tip

Yesterday it was time to remove the old glass, SCREWS (Oh yeah) and the old seal rope from the door.

There are several styles of rope channels in the various doors.

The cast iron doors many times have a U channel that the rope fits in, and after removing the old rope there is this huge amount of old silicone or seal glue (GOOP OF SOME SORT) that must be removed.

A suitable drill bit (size that just fits in the groove) works sweet to remove the crud.

Install the bit in the drill motor, then lay the end of the drill bit in the groove and lean the drill shank at about a 45 degree angle to the long axis of the channel.

Fir up the drill motor and run the thing up and down the channel.

Goop comes out very easily.

Far better than a wire brush or scraper.

Drill bits are not generally used in this way. BUT IT WORKS VERY WELL.


When replacing the glass, be sure that the glass channel area (place the glass actually sits) is free of any humps, bumps and or casting flash ( Imperfections/high spots) in the glass channel.

These can cause a stress to be placed on the glass when reinstalling in the door frame and possibly cause the glass to break after heating.

If you have the option (You are doing the work) mark the glass location before removal (use a sharpy and label each piece as to where it sat in the door) as the glass over time can take a set, and swapping into another position may/can cause the glass to break when the clips are tightened up and the stove fired.

Bigg deal is to be sure there are no RUSTY buildups in the glass channel area.

Over time, moisture, ash and ????? causes the iron/steel to form a nasty hard oxide formation under the seal rope.

If need be grind this crap off.

It was mentioned NOT to use "Butter bolt" (Grade 2 or so)

A lot of the Ace hardware stores have a phenomenal selection of all the hard to find stuff that can work real well on our stoves.

I might add here, smacking a cast iron door with a hammer may not be a trusty maneuver, lest thee end up with a multi piece door. Careful application of the club is certainly in order

Pellet stove doors 101

Many great posts in this thread.


Hope this helps

 

The others thing is soooooooo true.

The way some folks take care of/ or don't is just a crap shoot.

Seems that far too few people really respect the pellet stove for the fine piece of equipment that it is.

I see some stoves that look WORSE than many burn barrels.

 

Will that work on my allergy when I'm around cats??

 

Will Benadryl work?
Or does one have to get something else via prescription??

 

Hello

The 2004 stove in the 1st post is the 1st year of the igniter stoves. Being that old and used so much it took it's toal on the fire door window screws! I never saw one where the bolts that held the window glass were so badly frozen!

This 2008 stove on the other hand was easy in comparison!
Here are pics of th 2008 25-PDVC and using the standard procedure of:
1. Wire brush around screw head thoroughly
2. Spray PB Blaster on screw heads.
3. Using a speed 5/16 Hex Bit with a speed bit adapter to a 1/4" drive manual socket, remove the 10-32 hex head screws holding the glass brackets to the fire door.
I like the speed 5/16 Hex bit because it fits securely and doing it with a manual ratchet gives me a better feel of how it is going. Holding and turning as opposed to slipping and rounding off the head.

See pics below
1 - wire brush
2 - PB Blaster
3 - 5/16" crank
4 - Bolts came out easy ! ! !

 

The rusty grunge under the hold down plates is a very familiar sight.

I had to cut the screw heads off with the die grinder and a cutoff wheel.

Started re-drilling and tapping them out.

The rain descended on my area, and it's cold, so have 3 of the 12 screws removed and retapped.

Going out to 1/4-20 instead of the 10-32 to gain the strength of a good Allen head screw.

Probably go with a standard Allen as they have a better purchase area.

Drilling out the self tapping screws is a PITA.

Cobalt drills are the name of the game.

Looking good Don

Keep the faith

 

Thanks
Drilling out any type of screws is a PITA!
Going to 1/4 - 20 bolts is a great way to go if you have room!
I am sticking with the 10-32 to fit like the originals.
However finding good Stainless Steel 10-32 1/2" long screws around here is not that easy. :-(

Good to have you here Snowy and saving a really good stove that would have probably seen the scrap heap!!!!

 

Use 10-32 Allen cap screws.

The hex head jobs that the factory used are still a tad sketchy.

Add the NEVER SNEAZE and your good to go.

 

Started looking for Never Sneaze, have not found it yet.
Have found 2 links (have not searched too hard yet)that say something about Never stand behind a sneazing cow.

 

We adopted a hypoallergenic cat (A sphynx)

Family member who is very allergic to cats (And loves them) has no issues, not even a single sneeze.

Very very friendly, and love their "Hooooomans"

Hairless, no constant annoying cat hair all over everything.

Very intelligent too.

Part cat, part dog, part 3-4 year old child, part monkey, part alien.

A very very cool little creature.

This one does have a layer of very fine fuzz, but most are smooth

 

Me either!!!

 

Hello
Just had to do it again to a very old 25-PDV
15 year old pellet stove in Berwick Maine. Cracked fire door glass and all 4 hold down bolts snapped off! England Stove works now owned by SBI Stove Builders International do not sell new doors! Is the stove junk??
Got a High Carbon steel 10-32 plug tap and grounded point off to make a bottom tap. Drilled 4 - 5/32” holes with cobalt drill bit! Tapped by hand and got 4 good taps!! Yeah! The rest is cake!!
Just pulled off trim and door gasket.
Used VHT very high temperature 2,000 degree flat black paint from an auto parts store and gave door a good base spray coat. Then using Stove Bright high temperature 1,400 degree Satin Black paint for a top coat to give a little sheen. Then I siliconed the gold trim on and put the new glass with gasket kit in and siliconed a new door gasket on and shut the door!!