Endurance 50 & control board troubleshooting

Discussion in 'Pellet Stoves, Pellet Fireplaces, Pellet Furnaces' started by Spruce_Goose, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. Spruce_Goose

    Spruce_Goose

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    Hi all, new here to the forum. Have read some threads and enjoyed the collection of knowledge here.

    I have a Napoleon NPI40 at home and an Endurance 50f at work. The latter is what I'm troubleshooting now.

    The issue is an auger timeout. I read another thread here about the auger timeout error, which helped, but I've reached a dead-end. Here's what I know (or think I know):

    • The auger sometimes feeds fine, but it sometimes doesn't operate, and that seems to be the cause of the error. Recently, it hasn't wanted to budge right from the start-up. Prime button doesn't move it.
    • Hooking direct 120v to the auger, it spins fine.
    • The hi-limit switch is by-passed (for troubleshoot) and I've confirmed continuity from the control board wiring harness to the auger motor lead.
    • There is 120 volts or so between the auger motor supply wires, even when auger motion is not being called for by the control (apparently this is normal according to Fahrenheits videos—and a slight spike in voltage should be seen when called for). No voltage spike noted when the auger light is backlit. (this is a newer model).
    • I emailed with Matt from Fahrenheit and he thought it likely the control board. So... got the new board installed this week.
    • Auger timeout Still happens :hair: (in fact, some of the above listed troubleshooting happened after the new board)
    • Is my luck that bad that the new board is also wacky? Or maybe our machine has some malfunction that is damaging the boards? These pups ain't cheap.
    So I think what I'm really looking for here is some control board troubleshooting advice, for those so inclined. Unless there is some other component or wiring on the stove that could be causing the issue.
    I've got a multi-meter and am willing to check specific components on the board if folks have guidance on where to check...
     
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  2. Spruce_Goose

    Spruce_Goose

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  3. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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  4. Rich250

    Rich250

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    Sounds more like the auger motor is on it's way out, It may turn fine out of the stove but in the stove with any amount of pressure it may be cutting out.
     
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  5. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe

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    That would be my guess too but the control board shouldn't know this unless I'm way off track(been known from time to time). Power is sent to energize the auger, CB should be satisfied. I've tried to manually control the auger(like leaving the hopper lid open) when I was having my pot backing up on me and it timed out even when I had a roaring fire in the chamber. So it can be possible on the auger malfunction can tell the CB something is up.
     
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  6. Spruce_Goose

    Spruce_Goose

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  7. Spruce_Goose

    Spruce_Goose

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    I should clarify that I didn't take the auger motor out of the stove to run it. I just cut a power chord and hooked it straight to the auger motor leads with it still in the stove and full of pellets. It seemed to spin without any hesitation or odd noise. It's not that old and looks to be in fine shape.

    I was wondering though if the auger somehow 'communicates' with the control board (via it's impedance?) and that communication link has broken down somehow. But it seems to me more likely the control board wouldn't know the difference and that it's simply not sending the needed juice to the motor. (Along the lines of what ivanhoe is getting at).
     
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  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe

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    As or have you played with the hopper lid switch? Maybe it came loose? Mine is in a fix position to be able to keep the lid open, I got a kitchen sink hold-down clamp on it which I gizmoed. You can try to jump it to see if it works that way.(blue/pink wire together)
    Welcome to FHC :handshake:
     
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  9. Spruce_Goose

    Spruce_Goose

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    A little update.

    I confirmed that the motor, when hooked up, is not actually getting voltage (about 1v ac). The 120 voltage reading with open leads I saw (normal according to Fahrenheit video) is likely a 'ghost' type voltage (high impedance coupling or whatnot). In other words, there really was no power going to the motor.
    Lid switch is bypassed due to hopper extension, and continuity is confirmed from the wiring harness to the motor hot, and from the motor neutral back to the neutral prong on the plug.

    Seeing as this was a new board, I'm not sure whether to blame the Jupiter Saturn conjunction or whether there is a stove component (like the auger motor?) damaging the board.

    So my goal is to troubleshoot problems on the board to isolate the cause. I'll be learning as I go. Starting with the triacs.

    I'll update if I can figure anything out. Any suggestions on teasing out problems on the control board are welcome.
    Also wondering if anyone knows how to test the theory that a component could be damaging the boards? I suppose measuring currents once it's operating? How many ohms resistance should I be seeing across good auger motor leads?
     
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  10. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe

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    Can this situation being caused by having no surge protector for the furnace?
    It happens I have the MK auger of my older unit on the shelf, 14.6 ohms
    Would be good info on your findings on the CB :yes:
     
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  11. Spruce_Goose

    Spruce_Goose

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    Thanks for that Ohm reading. That sounds pretty close to what I measured, but I'll double check.
    Interesting about the surge protection. We don't have any. It wasn't really on my radar until some recent reading, and now your note.

    The issue cropped up pretty quickly after installing the new board (that same day) with no unusual power conditions that I know of (weather was fine). But wo knows. We'll look into one for when we get this operational again.
     
  12. imacman

    imacman

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    Anyone who has a pellet stove is playing with fire w/o any kind of surge protector. Hopefully, you figure it out, and fingers it isn't the board.

    This is the unit a lot of us use, avail. on Amazon for maybe a bit cheaper....available in white too: Isobar 2-Outlet Surge Protector, 1410 Joules, Diagnostic LEDs | Tripp Lite:
     
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  13. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe

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    Auger motor could be good but the gear box / auger screw can be the culprit and your fuel to boot. A weak motor can also play a role. How old is the unit and what fuel are you using?
     
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  14. JZM2CC

    JZM2CC

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    When you say hi limit disk is bypassed are you referring to proof of fire snap disk on exhaust manifold?

    I have one of these in garage and it's cold soaked to 20F or close to that when starting. I don't care how big of fire it sees when I start it manually, it always times out and fire does out. In second attempt the POF disk must snap close when it does it's check 10 or 15 minutes into startup procedure. There must be a huge thermal sink which takes a long time to get temp up to closing temp being mounted on that heavy piece of metal verses typical location on exhaust blower housing which is thin metal.
     
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  15. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear

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    Soot behind where the POF mounts is all that is required to cause a time out at startup. There can be a striped gear in that auger motor causing minor feed variations which would appear as outages and spastic auger movement. A worn end bearing can also lead to this situation. I know nothing about pellet devices, I'm a Bear. Welcome to this Loony farm.
     
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  16. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear

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    No, the hi limit switch is normally located in the devices air output stream and is a NC thermal disk that is higher rated then a POF.

    It is a safety that stops the auger from turning.
     
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  17. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear

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    While we are at it soot build up in the exhaust system can lead to the vacuum switch causing feed variations which is the reason we say clean (and we really mean clean) the device before playing swap out.
     
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  18. JZM2CC

    JZM2CC

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    In my case exhaust was just disassembled and cleaned, suspect POF disk is slow to trip, this two startup attempts to get auger to start auto feeding from cold start. Didn't realize the Endurance has an over temp disk/sensor.
     
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  19. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear

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    I always talk about the general case when talking about pellet devices. The device maker protected his azz pretty well these days and some of them did so in the past as well.
     
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  20. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear

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    I have never seen a slow snap disc, Just cold ones or hot ones. Out of spec ones if operator falls down on picking one.
     
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