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Bought an older house, how the hell do I use this thing?

Discussion in 'Non-EPA Woodstoves and Fireplaces' started by KeswickRidge, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. KeswickRidge

    KeswickRidge

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    98707C46-4799-4724-B3A3-164D22B97E2E.jpeg 48CCFC95-F437-4E77-9101-3E9F6DDF8980.jpeg 0EFEB20B-8E36-4E02-A6FF-EE2B7DDA53B5.jpeg C2EECAA2-FBAF-4C49-B80F-2B555EAB6290.jpeg 08DE059A-4E00-44F5-AD1A-E8BA02E15D2D.jpeg 7EDA461A-C7E5-4B38-8D75-871C363D7367.jpeg 6A149CA4-E5C2-4DE1-8C23-817362DFC03C.jpeg A1899DA5-7955-4083-8CED-9EEF2DC82F5A.jpeg 98707C46-4799-4724-B3A3-164D22B97E2E.jpeg Hey guys,

    So my girlfriend and I bought an older house. Old owner heated with oil furnace and wood furnace. A new ductless heat pump was installed so we’re planning to get rid of the oil furnace and only use the wood furnace as back up on the really cold days.

    Today I went downstairs to try to understand how to use this thing and it wasn’t as straight forward as I was hoping (naive young couple in our first house) so I was hoping you guys would be able to help!

    Here’s what I know for sure. The green box is the wood furnace, the green thing in the white box is the blower, and the little motor thing attached to the light blue box with the orange piping is the oil furnace. Today I went down and the “light switch”(connected to the blower) was in the “on” position. I pushed the button on on the thermostat (push=manual / pull=auto) on the right to manually turn the fan on to see if it works and it did! But when I pulled the button back out to put it back in auto, the fan stayed on. I had to turn the “light switch” in the off position to turn it off. Am I doing something wrong or is the thermostat faulty? Is the oil burner on as well when I turn the switch on or is it just the blower?

    Also, what is that little silver box with the metal beads on a string? If I pull the string out, the lever from the silver bow slowly moves the string back into place. Almost like it would automatically pull/release the string.

    Any information at all helps. Let me know if you need more pictures. Thanks!
     
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  2. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    It might be a bit sticky...that is a Honeywell fan/limit control switch, lots of different models of them out there, but not hard or expensive to replace if needed...I'd turn the power back on later to see if the blower is off now...if not, might be able to tap it and get it to turn off.
    Probably everything...turn the thermostat up and see if it kicks on.
    That's the air damper control for the wood fire...probably controlled by a separate thermostat from the oil furnace...I bet there are two of them side by side upstairs somewhere.
    I'd leave it alone...the oil and wood are tied together in series and it will be a fair amount of work and expense to pull the oil out...it could be done, but I wouldn't do it unless there is a great reason to...might want to have an HVAC service guy in to check everything over before heating season though...make sure those heaters are safe to use.
    Do you have dry wood to burn in that little monster? Those old furnaces make enough creosote without adding wet wood into the mix.
     
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  3. KeswickRidge

    KeswickRidge

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    Thank you for your reply. I’ll definitely have to have someone in to take a look at it all. The reason we want to get rid of the oil tank/oil furnace is because our home insurance would be much lower. We have a couple cords of well seasoned wood to use this winter and the chimney was cleaned and WETT certified right before we bought the house.

    If you think the oil furnace would be on as well, will it hurt anything if there is no oil left in the tank and we have the blower on and the wood furnace going? From what I understand it shouldn’t but i want to ask to be sure.

    Also there is no thermostat upstairs for the furnaces. Just the thermostat in the basement on the wood furnace itself
     
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  4. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    See if you can just have the oil tank removed...removing the furnace itself would be the main issue...the heat from both furnaces is distributed to the house via the blower that is in the oil furnace...and redoing the ductwork would be some work for sure.
    No it will be fine...the distribution blower wouldn't work if the oil furnace didn't have power. The oil burner should never fire unless its thermostat is turned up.
    There has to be a thermostat upstairs somewhere...or used to be anyways...system wouldn't work without them...maybe they were removed when the heat pump system was installed? Should be one for the oil and one for the wood side...
    Oh, by the way, the controls you are calling thermostats on the furnace plenum are fan/limit control switches...they turn the distribution blower on/off, and cut power off to the oil burner or the wood furnace air intake damper motor if they sense the plenum getting too hot...hence the fan and (high temp) limit control switch name...
     
  5. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Looking at the pic of the fan/limit switches again, the reason (I think) the blower would not shut off once you activated it is that the one on the left is set to come on at 100* and off at 50*...no idea why it is so low...the one on the right is set more normal...150* on, 100* off. The little pointers can just be slid over to the temp you want...but once you activated it, the temp was not low enough to shut it off (above 50*) at least I think this is what happened...that 50/100 setting is way too low for sure.
    EDIT, it may just be the angle of the picture...they may both be set at 100/150*
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
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  6. KeswickRidge

    KeswickRidge

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    I didn’t think about that, I’ll have to ask the insurance company if that would work.


    Yeah I was confused about this as well but I looked everywhere and didn’t see one. I assumed the old owner just turn it on and off as needed maybe? There are many questionable things in the house so it wouldn’t surprise me. I’ll try to follow some wires from the furnace and see if I can trace any upstairs.

    I’m learning new things everyday here! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
     
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  7. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    It should be a small wire, about half the size of a regular household electric wire, or a bit less. Kinda like the wire going to the wood furnace damper motor...
     
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  8. chris

    chris

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    Off the Honeywell control for the oil furnace I see a 3 wire run up to floor joist then heading left in picture in a grey sleeve those may be the thermostat wires.
     
  9. FatBoy85

    FatBoy85

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    Any update to this?? , I found it interesting because parents have an oil furnace and they installed the oil tank OUTSIDE of their house. I don’t know if that regulates the insurance part but hopefully you worked out something with them and that lowered your expenses.

    I like hearing about the wood furnace because it’s something less known and usually when we think of fire, we like to see the thing happening in front of us! Makes getting it all started up and seeing worth it. Having a wood stove was much more exciting than watching tv...
     
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  10. KeswickRidge

    KeswickRidge

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    Yes, I figured it all out!

    so the reason the blower wasn’t turning off is because the regulator dial thing was just stuck from dust and gunk buildup. I sprayed some lubricant on it and it works better now. I did find a thermostat upstairs so you basically set the temperature you want on the thermostat upstairs (let’s say 70) and then you start a fire in the wood furnace downstairs. If the temperature upstairs is less that the set temp (less than 70) then the intake damper opens automatically to allow the fire to build. Once the temp in the furnace hits 160 (on the circle dial fan controller) then the blower turns on and circulates the air throughout the house. If the furnace temp goes below 100, then the blower turns off to let the furnace build up the heat again. If the temp upstairs hits the set temp on the thermostat, then the intake damper closes automatically cause the fire to smoulder.

    One thing that’s not great about the furnace is that when the temperature upstairs reaches the set temperature on the thermostat, and the intake damper closes, if the logs aren’t completely burned down to coals then it doesn’t combust properly and I’m worried about excessive creosote buildup in the chimney. I decided to treat it more like a wood stove where we set the thermostat upstairs to the max (90) and then the intake damper stays open and we only burn the wood we need at a time.

    Anyone have any other suggestions or input?
     
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  11. yooperdave

    yooperdave

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    I'm thinking there should have been a contingency attached to your offer on that house.

    :handshake:
     
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  12. chris

    chris

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    hence the reason for really DRY wood. It is actually a coal furnace design that you can burn wood in but as you noted about the smoldering of wood and creosote that problem is almost a non entity when using coal ( except for the super soft brown stuff which is more like peat) The bain of a hot air wood furnace. Only way I know around this is mass storage ,solid materials or "phase change" materials. The most common phase change material is water for a reference. Solid storage would be like a Rumford fireplace or the rocket stove systems again for a reference.
     
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  13. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Treating it like a big wood stove is a good plan...simple/easy/cheap anyways. Burning wood that is actually DRY (internally) goes a long was to limiting creosote too...but the only complete cure would be to upgrade to a modern clean burn furnace...but I assume being a new home owner that is not in the budget right now.
    One other idea I had before I quit using my old Yukon Husky wood/oil multifuel furnace was to install a temp controller on it, but never actually tried it on the Husky before selling it. But, I actually did do this on a Drolet Tundra furnace (for a different reason) and it worked really well!
    Basically what you do is to get a PID programmable temp controller (chinese made models available cheap on ebay that work pretty good...thats what I used) and a thermocouple to put into the flue pipe...less than $50 (USA) worth of parts.
    The way it is set up is the thermocouple monitors the flue pipe temp and sends the signal to the controller...if the thermostat is calling for heat, the controller allows things to operate normally...until, the temp in the pipe gets to ABC temp (you choose the temp you want) then it over rides the thermostat and closes the damper...until the flue temp falls to XYZ temp (also by you) then it will allow the intake damper to re-open, IF, the thermostat is still calling for heat. What this does is cycles the damper open/closed more often so you don't have long periods where the fire is allowed to dwindle to a smoulder. You still need to load wood according to the heat load though (outdoor temp)...and you would have to play with temp settings on the controller to see what works the best for you...right off the bat I'd try 300* F max. 250*F min. to start things off...that should allow it to cycle a lot. You wouldnt want to go much colder than that...might need bump those numbers up higher if anything.
    Not sure if you can handle the wiring of all this or not, but any good HVAC tech or electrician could do it, pretty simple really...but you'd probably have to get someone to do it on the side, I doubt most business would be willing to make a mod like this on company time. Heck, its hard enough to find people willing to even fool with a wood furnace for basic service work (unless they are a dealer for that brand)
     
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  14. Stinny

    Stinny

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    Your system there reminds me of the used wood/coal furnace I installed in our old farm in 1994. I burned coal in it for 4 years and had no major issues. I learned a lot about hot air heating, and coal, from those times. If you haven't had a furnace tech come and check it all out yet, I sure would do that. I didn't have the oil heat option, and I would have liked it. Just as a way to be able to leave the house during the really cold days/nights. Good luck KeswickRidge ... and congrats on the new house... :thumbs:
     
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  15. KeswickRidge

    KeswickRidge

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    that’s interesting about the coal... is that still a viable option? Do people even sell coal for furnaces anymore?

    I just purchased a moisture meter to test my wood to see how dry it really is but I have yet to use it. When we bought the house they left a cord of wood outside under some trees in a place with little wind so there was some fungus growing on the wood which made me worry it wasn’t dry but when I drop the logs on the cement, it makes that well seasoned sound so I’ve been really confused as to whether or not it’s properly seasoned to the core or not.

    Also I’m not really sure what you mean by mass storage ,solid materials or "phase change" materials. Are you talking about upgrading or modifying the actually furnace?
     
  16. KeswickRidge

    KeswickRidge

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    That’s a really good idea! I could probably wire it myself but I think I’ll just run it like a wood stove this winter and see how it goes, then re-evaluate for the next winter. There’s a bit too much on my plate right now to start adding extra projects to it lol
     
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  17. KeswickRidge

    KeswickRidge

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    that’s really interesting about the coal, you don’t hear about people using coal anymore but I’m gonna ask around to see if it’s still an option.

    I did have a furnace tech come out to the house to show me how it works (a guy off craigslist that just works by himself) and it actually ended up being the same guy that installed the furnace in the house xx years ago! It was a funny coincidence but he wasn’t really helpful in explaining how it all worked even when I asked specific questions. I was quite disappointed when he left and I hadn’t really learned anymore more than I already knew. My father in law ended up being more helpful through a bunch of trial and errors we did one day.
     
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  18. Stinny

    Stinny

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    Coal... it became harder to get, as the 4 years went by... from 1994 to 98. The farm is in western Maine, and the last year, I had to borrow a friend's 5 yard dump truck (no one would deliver anymore), drove to Belfast (I think it was) and bought 5 tons. That was the last year burning coal, lol. Went to oil for the main heat. If your furnace still has the shaker grates, in the bottom of the firebox, you could try small loads of coal and see if you like it well enough to use it. It gives you a pretty consistent burn time of 12 hrs.
     
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  19. chris

    chris

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    Mass storage- stone or earth works with channels internally for the heated air to pass through the mass absorbs the heat later releases back into area . Phase change materials- a lot of research went into that starting about the late 60's ongoing - basic idea is, if a item heated or cooled it changes physical properties ie water to steam or ice. as it warms or cools as it reverts back to it's normal state. Different materials for various temperature ranges and weather the application is for heating or cooling, exothermic reactions. Even a big cylinder of water can act as as mass storage device with out getting into the phase change area or any plumbing ie hot water bottle. A tiled or brick wall behind a wood stove solid hot water bottle. Freeze pacs are another example of Phase change material ( not the ones you shake or crush ( hot or cold ) as those are chemical reaction units)
    yep there is a ton information buried in my skull most of the time ya gots to rattle it around bunch to get it out.
     
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