In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

Any special considerations for burning oak?

Discussion in 'Modern EPA Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Lil'John, Oct 14, 2014.

  1. Lil'John

    Lil'John

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    Please excuse the novice-ness of this. I'm a first year wood burner and not having good luck so far.

    I recently had a hearthstone Clydesdale wood insert installed beginning of October.

    To get the first burn done while waiting for my real wood, I bought two bundles of "cheap" Home Depot wood. The first "seasoning" burn started and went well.

    Because the first burn went well, I did a second burn and while it did okay, it was fairly short because the HD wood seemed to be mostly "cork"... very light and "airy". The heat output was great overnight and the heat soak was nice the next day.

    Both burns involved the following "technique" mentioned above and in the manual:
    • 3-4 tightly wrapped newspapers on bottom
    • 5-8 1/2" kindling on top (mine were closer to 3/4")
    • Start paper on fire and leave door partially ajar until kindling catches
    • Once kindling is burning well, put 2-3 larger pieces on top (mine were ~1"x3-4")
    • Once the larger pieces catch and burning, put regular pieces on.
    The real wood showed up and appeared to be almost all red/pink hued oak. It was all split, felt dry and somewhat light. I do not have a method to give an accurate moisture content.

    Today, I tried the same technique I used previously to burn the oak and it failed miserably.

    My problems started right at the start. The kindling was hell to catch fire. But I was able to get the kindling smaller and smaller until it finally going(under 1/2")

    Once I got the kindling going, Anything close to 1"x3-4" would barely catch/stay burning.

    From my understanding the red oak has a medium high heat value while pines are med low or low. Thus the oak may be a bit harder to burn.

    So what am I doing wrong and how should I adjust for oak? I'd rather not freeze my butt this winter or go broke buying HD wood :(
     
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  2. MightyWhitey

    MightyWhitey

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    Wet wood.

    Not matter what your "wood guy" calls seasoned............................it's most likely not even close to "seasoned".
     
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  3. Well Seasoned

    Well Seasoned Administrator

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    Oak really takes 2 to 3+ years to season after its been cut, split & stacked in a sunny breezy preferred area. . It really holds on to its moisture. The only 2 options I see feasible for you is buying kiln dried cordwood or cutting up either dead standing wood or wood thats down, preferrably off the ground with the bark off. The second method might get you by, but I will suggest checking your chimney often. I will also add that you should be css (cut, split, stack) your wood now in preparation for next year.
     
  4. My IS heats my home

    My IS heats my home

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    Welcome to the forum John.
    You have a bunch of good questions and we will have a lot of great answers for you.

    First off, the oak you have. Oak is one of the hardest/denser woods you can burn. It's also one of the hardest
    to dry, it takes a long time to get to a moisture level of less than 20%. In most cases 2-3 years. I'm not sure what the case is with the oak you have is but it almost sounds to me that it may be wetter than it needs to be.

    Another good idea is a moisture meter, it measures the level of moisture within the split and lets you know when it's ready to burn. As I said, less than 20% moisture content is desirable. If you can pick up a cheap moisture meter (MM) at the local hardware store you will be able to get the moisture content of your oak. When you do check the split, you will have to resplit the wood and check the inside with the meter to see what you have.

    Oak is also a type of wood that I would want to use in the coldest time of the year. It has a longer burn capability and has higher BTU outputs than other woods available to most. Part of the learning curve, you will see in time what I mean.

    As far as heat value, I would rate the oak as medium to high, although I don't have my chart in front of me.

    Others will chime in, lots of info to share
     
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  5. stuckinthemuck

    stuckinthemuck

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    You came to the right place to get answers.. Congrats on the new stove and welcome to FHC!!!

    Recommend that you get a moisture meter (like My IS said) such as the one here. Once you get it, stick it in a couple of fresh splits of the oak that you just bought. If it's over 20% you can do one of a few things.

    1. Stack it for next year and buy more for this year from a reputable supplier who will let you test the moisture of the wood upon delivery.
    2. Get something drier to burn with the oak. Scrounge some pallets or dead and down wood wherever you can. If you got access to a truck and a trailer, you can get some free pallets in Reno here. IIRC, Reno is a pretty dry environment so they ought to burn really well.
    3. Build a solar kiln to see if you can accelerate the drying process. Splitting the wood smaller will help too.

    If you're going to try to get by on Home Depot wood, you might as well use your other heat source (electric or propane i assume) and put off burning til next year. If you want to put the extra work into finding some dry wood to burn, that is probably your best bet. The moisture meter will get you familiar with what is dry enough to burn and what isn't...
     
  6. My IS heats my home

    My IS heats my home

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    +1, good info
     
  7. Lil'John

    Lil'John

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    Lots of good info for me to digest.

    I've got the MM ordered and I'll get an official measurement.

    I've got a good chunk of the wood stacked with the top covered. Will rain/snow cause any noticeable moisture increase because of the exposed sides?

    The supplier I bought from is what I've been told is reputable in my area. This was not a "mom-pop" craigslist ad. There was a physical address.

    For wet wood, wouldn't there be lots of popping happening? This wood had what I would call minimal popping. Maybe one a minute or so. I thought it was more of a sap pop.

    stuckinthemuck, it never crossed my mind to even try to use HD wood for the season.

    MyIS, what you mention about oak being dense was my understanding and lead to longer burning/heating time.

    As many have told me, part of the learning curve. Fortunately, while I got the insert a bit late, I have a bit of time to experiment before it starts getting very cold.

    Since everyone likes a good picture. Here is the pile that was dropped off:
    houseWood.jpg
     
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  8. papadave

    papadave

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    Welcome aboard John.
    Yep, sounds like wet wood.
    Oak does not like to let go of it's moisture for quite a while.
    An example: When I start a fire, I just load the stove with Oak, put in a firestarter (or some paper), light it and close the door.
    I've usually got a roaring fire in just a few minutes. Dry wood. On a reload, the Oak starts on fire after I've loaded just a couple pieces.
    Takes between 2-3 years to get it to that point, unless it's dead standing or down.
    http://worldforestindustries.com/forest-biofuel/firewood/firewood-btu-ratings/
    http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm
    http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/techline/fuel-value-calculator.pdf
     
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  9. papadave

    papadave

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    John, when the wood got burning, was there moisture bubbling from the ends of the splits?
    As long as you top cover, the wood will be fine.
    After a re-read, I'm wondering what your flue setup is like. Hard starting could be a cold flue/bad draft. Was there smoke coming back into the room if you opened the door?
    A lot of that wood looks to be barkless, which is usually a sign that it's fairly dry.
    I'll keep my thinking cap on for this one.
     
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  10. Lil'John

    Lil'John

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    Cold flue is a very good possibility especially with the problematic start to get it heated up. The HD wood had some smoke issue until I got it burning hot for a while. The oak wouldn't get me a good burn going and did have more smoke. I was able to get the oak kindling to burn well if I left the door cracked open.

    On the bad draft, it was mentioned that a bad draft was a possibility due to being in a ravine. But, I don't think that is the problem in this case since I got the HD wood to burn well.

    For the cold flue issue, should I try burning more kindling sized wood for a hotter burn?
     
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  11. concretegrazer

    concretegrazer

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    Welcome Lil'John! How tall is your chimney? What type of liner is in it? basod has a Clydesdale he might have some other pointers to help you get going.
     
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  12. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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    jharkin mentioned "the newspaper trick" in a different thread.
     
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  13. Lil'John

    Lil'John

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    I'll have to look into chimney but I believe it is about two feet above rooftop.

    I believe the liner is stainless. I purchased insert from local Hearthstone dealer and used their recommended installer. Arrangements for install was made through dealer. Liner was installed new with insert.
     
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  14. fox9988

    fox9988

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    ^This sounds like a lack of draft problem. What was the outside temp?

    The firewood looks primo but very unseasoned. My oak turns very dark grey within a year of seasoning. Almost black in two years. The bright pink color in the pic looks like fresh cut wood.
     
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  15. Lil'John

    Lil'John

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    As a follow up, the only two experiences I have is the roaring campfire type and a propane assisted open fireplace.

    So I may have an unrealistic expectation on how my insert should look during various phases of burning*embarrassed*
     
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  16. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover

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    Yep, but on the plus side, like papadave said, bark-less wood is a good sign. If it isn't boiling water out the ends when it finally gets burning, just hissing a bit, it still may be somewhat useable this year. You could maybe get some Bio-bricks or other compressed-wood logs to mix with it and get by. If you know anyone with a wood lot, there may be some small, bark-less dead trees there that would burn pretty well. Oh yeah, I'd like to know as well, how tall is your stack, from stove top to the top of the liner, and what is the minimum height that your stove manual specifies? At least you live in CA.....good luck this winter. And BTW, welcome. :)
     
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  17. Mitch Newton

    Mitch Newton

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    I would say to resplit some of those splits to get as small as possible and start with a firestarter (Super Cedars or Fat Sticks), use plenty of kindling to get a hot fire and a good bed of ashes to help get the bigger splits started. With green wood using newspaper to start the fire could lead to problems with a chimney fire. I try to never use newspaper. Nice looking load of wood. Unfortunately, it probably should be used next year or the following year. Good luck.
     
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  18. DaveGunter

    DaveGunter

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    The amount of draft can vary a lot day to day depending on the outside temp.

    Check that wood when the moisture meter comes, don't forget to check on a freshly split piece, you want to check the inside of the wood. Good luck and keep asking questions, lots of help around here.
     
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  19. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover

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  20. papadave

    papadave

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    John. this may sound tedious and repetitious, but how tall (in feet) is the flue setup. Where does it exit the roof? Minimum height above the roof should be 3'.
    Here's some info about that.......http://www.fireplacesnow.com/tentwo.asp
    The manual calls for a minimum flue height of 13', and also calls for a block off plate in the damper area. Manual also calls for a 6" liner. Larger flue will cause a slowdown of exhaust. Is the flue insulated?
    These details will help, and when we know the answers, will allow us to eliminate some as causes.
    As Dave mentioned, if the outside temp is fairly warm, you will have more trouble getting a fire going. If there are also other issues with the setup, everything is magnified.......we used to call that the "stack effect" (no pun intended). Add a few small issues together and you have one big issue that's sometimes hard to track down.
    As Dave also said, check a few freshly split pieces of whatever wood you're using for MC.
    Oh yeah, we luvz us some pics. That's a beautiful stove....you should show it off.:D:thumbs::dancer:
     
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