Generator question

I have one of these generators, that I picked up maybe 15 years ago. Probably not the best, but the price was right, meaning the power was out, and it was available. Back then, I had an electrician that I know help me out with making a cord that plugs into an old outlet for a welder in the garage, and powers my whole house. I'm sure it's not code, as their isn't a transfer switch, but it works, and I know to flip the main off to the house whenever I use the generator.

Generator has always been enough to power my well and fridge, which is about all I really need it for, and if I have a draw going, like the air conditioning, I make sure to shut the breaker off to the well. I usually fire it up every month or 2, and run it long enough to warm up, and it's never had an issue starting.

Last time I lost power, I noticed that the generator was no longer putting out enough power to run my well. I don't have any type of testing equipment to know for sure what the output was, or is now; I'm just relying on the feeling that it's not putting out as much power as it used to.

Someone at work told me that it probably lost its magnetic field, but I really don't know anything about the generator, aside from how to use it for my few needs.

Is that a thing? If so, how do I get it fixed? Does any small engine repair place do that, or is that a specialist type of fix? If so, what do I ask for?

I appreciate any help on this, as it's all new to me.

 

An inexpensive volt & ohm meter will tell you a lot. Test both 110 legs & the 220 outlet. I've seen one side lose power due to degradation of the pots in those things. Doesn't happen often though, more like engine rpm isn't where it should be. The voltage is dependent on constant correct rpm. Carbs get dirty & springs wear in the throttle assy. Most electronics will self protect from high voltage, but not low, it's worse for them. Fire it up & test output, 220-230 is optimum.

 

This sounds a bit to simple but worth a shot:
https://www.auroragenerators.com/post/fixing-portable-generators-no-power

 

While you are checking voltage , check the frequency/rpm of the genset . Some times the governor doesn’t bring the engine up to speed all the way . 60HZ , 3600 rpm . Motors are very sensitive to frequency .

 

All good advice so far!

 

Try plugging in loads gradually and see if you can get it to trip it's breaker. Heaters, toasters, hair dryers ect are good resistive loads. If you have an old dial style plug in electric clock with a second hand you can use that and another clock to do a quick frequency check, under load.

 

I f the generator lost its magnetic field it would not generate at all any voltmeter will check output voltage if engine is running@3600 steady add load and watch voltage if it drops and stays low the voltage regulator may be faulty if your well is 220 check to see if you have lost one leg of the 220 at the outlet almost all of the portable generators use 2 windings put together to make 220 most small engine shops fix the engine end but usually you have to find one that does the electric end just because they sell them does not mean they can fix them I fix generac and honda generators most problems are parts replacement if windings are bad it is usually cheaper to replace unit I have had some larger units come into the shop and I send them out to a company in reading Pa near me called reading electric they specialize in welder and generator repair maybe you have someone near you like that one thing to check sounds stupid but I have had this numerous times in shop is simply the outlet on the panel went bad seems like the vibration/corrosion gets to them I just replace the outlet and its fine I always check the voltage at the back of the outlets just to make sure also check for loose/corroded connections on your outlets the vibration shakes them loose and they can get build up on them from arcing and cause low voltage hope this helps JB

 

We used to have a 9000 watt genny. It was that experience that taught me genny's need a whole lotta airspace around them for cooling. The 9000 was in a tight space at first... and burned up one side of the 220v output very quickly. I put it in a wide open area (barn), with a fan pulling heat away from it, and it ran for years, putting out 4500 watts at 110v. Don't know about your unit SloMoJoe ... but, it's worth considering.

 

Great idea!

 

If you burned up one side it most likely had nothing to do with air circulation. Much more likely a loose or corroded high resistance connection.

 

Appreciate the responses, all. Very grateful for the advice. I do IT work, and my mind doesn't "get" mechanical like it does electronics or databases. I was mostly trying to figure out if re-magnetizing it was like a blinker fluid fix, as I'd never heard of it. But, you've inspired me to at least do some experimentation, so thank you.

amateur cutter, the RPM's don't vary. I do hear it lug a little bit when I put a load on it, but nothing extreme, and it's always done that. If it's running fewer RPM's, it's not noticable to my ears, but that could be easy to miss, since I only really hear it run when the power is out. I guess I'll pick up a multi-meter. Never had a need for one, or used one before, but will give it a try. Not sure how to ID the positive negative in the round plug that twists in, but maybe I can google it. I've never used the standard 110 plugs on it, so it will be interesting to see if they still work.

unbidden, interesting article. Thank you. I've broken most of those rules, letting the generator run out of fuel under load (accidentally), running it for 10-15 minutes every 2 months with no load, stuff like that. I was taught to shut it down by closing the fuel valve, and letting the carb run out of fuel, but there is never a load on it when I do that. Come to think, I don't know that this is a good idea, I probably picked it up from the early days of ethanol fuel. The idea that you should run it under load is a new one to me, as the generators at work, and older 60kw, and now a new (I forget the kw, but it's an 8 liter engine, so maybe 80 or 100 kw?) never run under load. They just turn on every week & idle for 5 minutes & shut off. Only time they ever see a load is when the power is out to the office. Maybe it's different with the bigger ones, thoguh.

Nixon, how would I check the RPM on a small engine like that? Sorry if that's an obvious question, but it's not something that I ever thought to do before.

Screwloose, I'll try to trip it. I have a couple of space heaters in the house, and a couple of old hair dryers in the garage that I picked up to unfreeze the tailgate when that happens. I've never managed to trip it before, it's just showed brownout on the error code on my furnace this past time.

JB Sawman , well, dryer, and stove are all 220. Will be trying what you mentioned this weekend.

Stinny , the generator sits in the garage, unless it is running. When I'm running it, it's outdoors, 6-8' away from the corner of the house, with the power cable coming in under the garage door. I hear you on the heat... I learned to point the exhaust away from the house after running it the first time. The wall got somewhat warm, even though it had a couple of feet of clearance.

brenndatomu , thanks for the encouragement here.

 

I have a Generac genset and it is 6500 running watts. I tried measuring the output frequency with a cheap multimeter that has a Hertz setting. I find that the cheap meter doesn't work well because the genset output is rather noisy and it doesn't get a good count. I have been wondering about using one of the tach's that will get a reading off of the spark plug wire.

 

This is RPM check ^ ^ ^ 60 HZ (60 seconds on the clock) means 3600 RPM...if the clock runs slow, the engine is slow...

 

So I picked up a multi-meter, and here are the results.

At the generator:
131 volts at all 4 standard 20-amp plugs with the generator running, but nothing plugged in.

Then I shut the well, furnace, and dryer off, and plugged the generator into the welder outlet in my garage, flipped off the house main, and flipped the welder on, so I was powering the house off the generator. House had a few lights on, laptop charging, clocks on, stuff like that, so guessing it was taking 1-2k watts.

From a kitchen outlet:
120 volts with the basic stuff mentioned above plugged in.
117-118 volts with 1 1500 watt space heater plugged in. Generator lugged a bit when I plugged it in
106-107 volts with 2 1500 watt space heaters plugged in. Generator was definitely lugging. Sounded like it was running rich, missing regularly, but not rhythmically.

From the dryer outlet:
238 volts with the basic stuff mentioned above plugged in.

brenndatomu , the cheapie multi-meter doesn't measure hertz. Thanks for clarifying on the clock demonstrating hertz. I hadn't realized that was a way to test it. I'll have to see if I can dig one of those up somewhere.

It seems to me that the generator isn't putting out 6,000 watts, as it's rated, given the drop in voltage, when I think I was using 4,000 - 5,000 watts in the house.

 

All of the alternators have what is called slip. Bottom line is usually you will be slightly above 3600 rpm for a 2 pole alternator, 1800 rpm 4 pole,1200 6 pole ect. Synchronous motors are a dependable method of checking frequency and are used in many things besides clocks. I have a 4 rpm I usually use for frequency checks with a piece of tape on the shaft. 1 turn in 15 seconds is convenient.

 

Your results on voltage verify operation in the generator side. My guess is the engine is losing some rpm due to load. If it was missing even slightly it's not going to perform under load. Step 1 is fuel condition & quality. Step 2 is a set of new spark plugs. Even a slightly worn or fouled plug will degrade performance especially under a load. I would put a full can of Sea Foam or similar carb cleaner it with about 1/2 tank of fuel & plug both those heaters into it directly. Let it run on that load for 30-45 minutes. Shut down, let it cool off, swap in new plugs & repeat till it runs out of gas. I bet it'll make difference.

 

I kinda wondered when you first posted if this wasn't going to end up being about it not really running right...gunked up carb is by far the most common reason gennys go back to the shop for repair...but when you say it sounds rich, you mean like how it sounds if you leave the choke on too long? That would be the first thing I'd check...make sure the choke plate is opening fully...there is often a spring on the choke plate to make it return to the open position...see if things are sticking there somehow. Does it smell rich?
The other things I'd suspect will require taking the carb bowl off, and possible removing the carb completely...make sure the float is floating and the needle is sealing 100%...if not, I'd expect to see a little gas leaking externally when its not running (and maybe even when it is running)
When carbs get gunked up, they usually won't provide enough fuel, but it takes air to make things work right too...so if the air passages get plugged up, that can cause the engine to act and often smell rich due to the fuel not being properly atomized in the carburetor (gasoline burns as a vapor, not as a liquid) so its worth a shot to use some type of "miracle in a can" carb cleaner, but just beware, it often doesn't work...or if it does it can take days/weeks rather than hours...certainly worth a try though.
I'm a big fan of a product called Startron...its an enzyme fuel treatment that can be used for "cleaning things" up like this, and fuel prevention of fuel going bad and causing these problems in the first place...I've had great luck this product, haven't bought anything else since trying it...

 

Also, beware that gennys, like log splitters, are often "over rated" by the manufacturers, as in it says 5500 watts running, 8500 starting...I really doubt it would start a motor well while under 8500 watts total load. (unless maybe the engine is oversize for the genny? Does it state a horsepower anywhere?)
I'd guess real world starting watts would be more like 6500, maybe 7000. My Coleman says 5000 running/6250 starting...that's more realistic in my experience.

 

I've had mine 20+years I keep it in one of those Rubbermaid sheds start it every couple of months let it run with a load and always shut the gas off and let it run until it quits.

 

Engine has a plate that says 10 horsepower.

On listening again today, running rich wasn't a good way to explain it. It just missed when there is a load on it.

I did some more testing on the genny... To my surprise, the hair dryers that I was able to dig up were 1875 watts. I had no idea they were such energy hogs.

The generator runs fine with 2 hair dryers, sucking 3750 watts. This was the heaviest load that I could put on one circuit, and I was not able to trip a breaker with this load.
Engine starts to miss with 2 hair dryers + one 1,500 watt space heater, or 5,250 watts. Approaching max load of the generator.
Engine misses a lot with 2 hair dryers + 2 space heaters, or 6,750 watts. More than it's rated for on a 5,500 watt generator.

I'm running some sea foam in it for a bit now, to see if it improves the situation, and will test again tomorrow, after it's cooled down. If no difference, I'll give the spark plug a shot, but to my knowledge, the spark plug only has a couple of hours on it. I'm no mechanic, but it's not feeling like a gunked up carb.

Interestingly, I wasn't able to trip a breaker on it when I tried, but when I let it run with 3,000 watts, 1,500 watts per circuit, a breaker was tripped when I looked at it 5 minutes later. Twice.

There is a throttle adjustment, and when I pushed that to increase RPM's, it would handle the 6,750 watts, but I didn't want to mess with that, without being able to check out the hertz, and I don't have a way to do that right now.