In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

Cleaning Chimney While the Heavens Weep

Discussion in 'Modern EPA Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Kimberly, Dec 10, 2019.

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  1. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    Wow! Any more? I never criticized about the whole "electric drill thing" It's not my personal choice to use Electric power tools in the rain, but some do. AND, I don't believe anyone was "Blasting" for his/her/there practices!
    Lastly, I could care less "who" burns pine. But there are many hundreds of years of experience here on this forum and I've personally seen 3 houses burn't to the ground because of improper cleaning and "PINE"!
    Maybe you should read this; What "NOT" to put in your wood stove or fireplace!
    Oh, and thats 40+ years of experience and research myself and also as a fire fighter! Many others have contributed there as well.
     
  2. NVhunter

    NVhunter

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    I poked at your post about the Pine comment and only the pine comment. Wish I had access to all that fine hardwood without having to pay premium prices for it or drive hundreds of miles to get it. Anyway off topic.

    Read the previous post about drill use (in the rain) and cleaning techniques. I was not referring to you at all, next time I will call out each post specifically I guess.

    This was an overall statement about how everyone was picking at her for trying to keep her system clean while doing it in a way she thought was okay, which apparently was subpar and didn't use live up to the pros standards....

    As for Pine, season it, burn it correctly and it's no different than any other wood. Glad you were a firefighter for 40+ years and thank you for your service

    :salute:
     
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  3. billb3

    billb3

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  4. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    No, let me be clear. I have been burning for 40 years of my life. "Was" a Volunteer fire fighter and a US Navy and USCG Firefighter. I retired as a Damage controlman, Chief from the USCG and "part" of my job was firefighting. I don't want to "Twist" anything here. I believe my experiences of being in the field since 1985 gives me a fair idea. There "are" pro's on here. People are only offering suggestions and assistance. No need to beat the pine drum, we all realize people are from different parts of the country!
     
  5. yooperdave

    yooperdave

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    Been burning longer than NVhunter has been breathing! :picard:

    But...…...
     
  6. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    Did you do the analysis on them? I wasn't bashing them and but "yes there is"! So, Is there more you want to call me out on? Here's a quote right from Hunker, Creosote is a built up of residue formed from burning softer woods, such as pine. However, pine cones do not give off as much creosote as pine wood does.
     
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  7. NVhunter

    NVhunter

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    Yep, young wise a$$... Nope, just stating to give the OP a little benefit trying to do the right thing with safety in mind. I'm glad you have all this experience to share.

    Link for just a search of the term "creosote":

    creosote - Google Search

    Creosote is not from pine, it's a substance or byproduct from ANY carbon based fuel that is not burned properly. Any wood fuel not seasoned properly and burned incorrectly will have creosote buildup. Not just pine or softwoods, all wood or carbon fuel can produce it.
     
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  8. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    Understood!
    100% correct again!
    Actually, Cherry has a vast amount and many hardwoods as well. What happens with pine if "NOT" seasoned correctly is the sap forms as a glue, as most hard woods don't. It's the "substance burned off the wet pine" that creates the problems.
    Here is an exert from firewood for life;
    Pine Firewood

    Is pine firewood a good choice? Well, it depends on what you plan on using it for.

    Pine is a softwood that is very sappy and full of resin. A major concern for most people when burning pine is the chance for creosote buildup inside the chimney.

    Creosote is a dangerous buildup inside the chimney that can create a devastating chimney fire.

    Creosote can form from cool unburnt gases that adhere to the inside of the chimney. If these unburnt deposits catch fire, the result is a chimney fire.

    Creosote forms from a cool, damp fire. It's the way the fire burns that creates creosote, not necessarily the type of wood.

    Any wood you use should be seasoned to produce a hot, clean burning fire. With that being said, most people will not use pine for indoor firewood due to the high resin and fear of creosote build up.

    So what exactly is a pine tree? Here are a few common features.

    NVhunter , If you choose to burn it, thats great! I have and had issues even after seasoning, many of us here have. That's all were/I'm saying... And, the BTU's on pine is much lower than say Oak. about 16.9 million BTU's per cord with pine vs. 35 million BTU's per cord with Oak. Enjoy your pine my friend! :yes:
     
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  9. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    Oh, also, creasote can come from diesel fuel, "bunker-c" and many heavy fuels. I taught a bio-diesel class in the USCG Academy, yes, many forms of creosote. We get it...
     
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  10. NVhunter

    NVhunter

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    I think we're on the same page now. Since the national forest I have access to mainly provides different species of pine to burn, then that's what I'll do.

    Again thank you for your service in our military and fire service. I appreciate you and your service.

    :salute:
    :cheers:
     
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  11. BHoller

    BHoller

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    Ok guys I see some of you guys have a problem with me giving the op crap about their cleaning technique. And I commend them for cleaning their chimney. But they didnt do it correctly if they did it with a power sweep with no power. If they had any creosote build up in the chimney (which is likely with weak draft) cleaning the way they did would do absolutely nothing to it. And inspecting from the bottom the way they did would not tell them if there was glazed creosote in the top of the chimney at all.


    And no pine does not create any more creosote than any other wood as long as it is dry. And no the resin does not create glue it burns really well. The whole pine myth (yes that is what it is a myth) started because people would burn wet hardwoods at low temps filling their chimneys with creosote. If they then burnt pine (which drys much faster) it would light faster and get much hotter igniting the creosote built up in the chimney. The fire was not caused by a fault with the pine it was caused by poor burning and maintenance practices. But pine got blamed.

    Soft woods are actually very good firewoods because they dry fast and ignite easy meaning your system gets up to temp faster leading to less creosote buildup not more. No they don't have the same btu content as denser hardwoods but there is absolutely nothing wrong with burning them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  12. NVhunter

    NVhunter

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    Just because I'm curious, if there is glazed creosote in the chimney, how do you get it out....?

    I use a cordless drill for my sooteater. Works well and use a plastic trash bag strapped to the bottom of the chimney to catch the soot and ash once it comes loose.
     
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  13. BHoller

    BHoller

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    Using a power sweep correctly does a decent job many times. If that doesn't work stainless cables in a rotary cleaners in better. Sometimes it requires chemicals though.
     
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  14. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    Well, here I'll agree with you 90% :yes:
     
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  15. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    Ok, Not to be the scientist here but "creosote" is the chemical "deposit" on to a surface, produced buy any/some un-burn't chemicals in a product, some products, whether it be wood, liquid fuel, paraffin or what have you will cling/adhear to various objects on the process of cooling! It will deposit itself on more coarse items such as brick, block and stone vs. stainless or a smooth surface. Regardless, We can beat this horse :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse: and it's still dead! There have been "numerous" threads on this subject here. BHoller, I'm not going to Judge your thought process, I'm going by years and years of testimony from folks who have burn't pine. As I said to NVhunter, Enjoy your pine.
     
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  16. BHoller

    BHoller

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    And I am going by my years and years of experience as a chimney sweep and my father's almost 5 decades of experience doing the same. There is absolutely zero truth to this myth.
     
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  17. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    :salute: Ok, you say so.... :whistle: Chimney sweeps on this forum and others are clueless, enjoy your pine... :yes:
     
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  18. BHoller

    BHoller

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    Please give me an example of me being clueless when it comes to chimneys. I burn very little pine myself because I am from pa and have lots of choice of nice high btu hardwoods. But if I have to cut up pine for some reason it goes through my stove as do any untreated lumber scraps. And no it does not cause creosote buildup.
     
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  19. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    Kiln dried! Hot steamed and processed! They cannot produce "lumber" for a home that will expand or "contract" as drying wood will. It must be within about 5% to 9% for commercial sales! Most stove/fireplace wood after 2 or 3 years are about 10% to 15%.
    I didn't say "you were clueless" of your job as a chimney sweep, You most likely know you job very well, but do you know how every client is burning and what they are burning? Do you know how "hot" they are running their stoves? do you know the duration? Again, lets "not" discuss this any longer, we can agree to disagree... I respect your work, process, thoughts and thats what we do here. There are many factors in fires and the fire tetrahedron. There is a full science of the chemical dispersion on fire. I have a little bit of an idea on it. Again, I didn't say "you" were clueless, you came across as everyone else is! I do have my Turnip truck license! I just didn't fall off one...
     
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  20. BHoller

    BHoller

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    No I don't know what all of my customers are burning. But I do know for a fact that almost every customer who has serious creosote issues says but I don't burn pine so I don't understand. And in this area I have yet to see a creosote problem from people who have pine in their stacks. This is because woodburners who are educated about what it takes to burn properly usually understand it isn't the wood species that causes creosote it is moisture content and temperatures.

    If you insist on spreading false information I am going to correct you.
     
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