In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

Trans No Go

Discussion in 'The DIY Room' started by Kimberly, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. Kimberly

    Kimberly

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    12,814
    Location:
    The Kangaroo State
    Thanks. Yes, it was a big job and things got added when I found the inner and outer tie rods worn along with the lower ball joints; plus deciding to replace the struts because the last time my friend was here he said the struts were worn out; I will attend to the rear at a later date. It has taken me a lot of time to get this done; the car quit on me July 3. It hasn't been easy but I have managed to get it all back together. I went to install the new filter in the trans today and it would not fit, the plastic tube on the filter is just a bit too large; I even gently tapped with a rubber mallet. I should have ordered a brand I trust like Wix or Fram. My sister is coming tomorrow to take me to Advance Auto to get a replacement filter and I should soon be on the road again.
     
  2. gmule

    gmule

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    2,231
    Location:
    Conifer Colorado
    Look inside the filter tube bore on the valve body. Sometimes the old filter seal gets stuck in there and the filters won't press in. [​IMG]
     
    brenndatomu likes this.
  3. Kimberly

    Kimberly

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    12,814
    Location:
    The Kangaroo State
    On the old trans before it quit on me, I replaced the fluid and filter; wish I had known it was close to quiting on me because that turned into wasted money. I went ahead and decided to remove that filter seal. Well, that turned into a nightmare of a job to get that out. I thought it would be easy, just pull it out using a hook. No deal, that thing was pressed in, I had to collapse the old one and ended up scratching around the seal area. Therefore, I am not going to remove the old one in the replacement tranny. I tested my old filter from the dead trans and it slid up in the seal with a nice fit. I checked and I think this new filter tube is oversize; it was a cheap off-brand and rethinking I should not have went with it, saving a few dollars on a filter may not be smart.
     
  4. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    20,439
    Likes Received:
    127,194
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Did your old transmission receive regular fluid changes per GMs schedule? I ask because I know one of the local transmission rebuilders pretty well and he said it would surprise you how many transmissions fail soon after a fluid change.
    I think the theory is that the new fluid washes loose a bunch of gunk loose that was left behind by the old dirty fluid...especially if it had been a long time since the fluid was changed.
    I think that could be part of it...part of it may be just that people tend to wait to change the filter/fluid when the trans is already acting up...IDK.
    As for your filter issue...make sure you have the Oring lubed up before installing...ATF works...I like a very light coat of grease on the Oring and the bore myself
     
  5. Kimberly

    Kimberly

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    12,814
    Location:
    The Kangaroo State
    I was the third or fourth owner of the car, not sure and would have to do a VIN history check, definitely the third owner. Changing fluid will not make a trans go bad. In my case the input shaft to the pump had stripped splines and is a known weak area of these 4T65E trans. I noticed some damaged on the splines of the replacement and decided to go ahead and replace it in the new replacement trans. There is an aftermarket shaft with hardened splines but it was $149.00 so I did not buy it. If I can get 200K miles out of this trans (I had 204K+ on the old trans before it stripped out the last spline and quit). The replacement trans has around 26K miles on it.
     
  6. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    20,439
    Likes Received:
    127,194
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    It won't, eh?
     
  7. Boomstick

    Boomstick Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    1,379
    Likes Received:
    4,616
    Location:
    Saratoga county ny
    Usually just a fluid change or drain fill/pan drop won't hurt...unless the clutches/valvebody are already worn. The fluid breaks down and carries the old friction material in it.(adding friction)
    Like you said people wait for a problem then do something when they know something is wrong.
    Without the extra friction(clutch material in the fluid) the trans slips. Adding old gen I Mopar fluid is a "shift kit in a bottle"because of it's high friction qualities.
    New fluid also "changes" the viscosity Which helps or hurts sealing, so loss of pressure from the pump or shift valves, again fubars what's left.
    Shops also don't use the correct fluid fubar.
     
  8. Kimberly

    Kimberly

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    12,814
    Location:
    The Kangaroo State
    In my opinion the microscopic clutch particles suspended in the fluid does not add to the clutch surface because those particles are not bonded to the clutches and thus slide around; in fact, in my opinion the loose microscopic clutch materials decrease the friction between the clutches and the plates. Those particles get between the bonded clutch faces and the faces of the plates but they are free to move, so they contribute to slippage. Just like you want to get dirty burnt motor oil out of your engine you want to get dirty burnt transmission fluid out of your transmission. Having said that, yes, I know that some of the new cars now have transmissions where they claim you don't change the transmission fluid for the life of the transmission. Of course they are using synthetic fluid in these trans. They are not completely sealed, they do have vents and they do have a filler hole in the trans. I looked at a synthetic fluid that said had GM approval for use but at over seven dollars a quart, it was too pricey for me. I didn't exactly like paying $4.27 for Wally World SuperTech Dex VI.

    Addendum: This trans takes between 10 and 13 quarts.
     
  9. Boomstick

    Boomstick Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    1,379
    Likes Received:
    4,616
    Location:
    Saratoga county ny
    Trans builders I personally know say otherwise. So does my experience.

    The fluid meets the same standards, likely made in the same place with a different bottle.

    It takes 14 quarts being bone dry with a new dry new converter. With the radiator- cooler being correctly flushed, which you haven't mentioned.
     
  10. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    20,439
    Likes Received:
    127,194
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Who said anything about particles floating around adding friction? I don't disagree with you here. EDIT: I see I missed where Boomstick brought it up
    Where particles floating around causes problems is bushing/bearing wear, which causes the ever hardening seals to leak. Also junk getting in the valve body is a huge issue...sticky parts in the VB will cause slow shifts (wear on clutches) and low line pressure (wear on clutches)
    Back to my original statement of changing oil and then the trans goes out...I think the theory is that the new fluid washes the buildup junk loose in the trans because of ATF being a high detergent oil (that's why it cleans grease off your hands so well)
    That and fresh clean oil on worn clutches probably doesn't help matters either...
    Anyways, hope you are back on the road to long term reliability with your car here very soon.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
  11. Kimberly

    Kimberly

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    12,814
    Location:
    The Kangaroo State
    Yes, it has been flushed; however, it is not going to take a quart for the cooler and lines. It may well take 14 quarts although I don't think that is the specs from GM.
     
  12. Kimberly

    Kimberly

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    12,814
    Location:
    The Kangaroo State
    This is one of those things that have been debated on and off on many different forums. No way to test so it is all just feelz and opinion. I guess you could take two identical cars and try to drive them identically such as stomping on the accelerator etc, and try to wear them the same.... no, see, no real way to test.

    Dexron VI is regulated by GM; so anything with Dexron VI is to the GM specs. Now anything else is not, like Merc/Dex. I won't use Merc/Dex in my trans. I don't really know the legalities of approved by GM for the synthetic I saw; I imagine it is use at your discretion but if your trans goes out don't come whining to us.
     
  13. Kimberly

    Kimberly

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    12,814
    Location:
    The Kangaroo State
    I took the car for a test drive and it did shift through all the gears. However, I am not sure they are shifting when they should at this time. The shift points in this car are controlled by a PCM so the car needs to be driven so the computer can relearn. For the moment, the front end is too far out of alignment to safely drive the car. I don't have the equipment to set the camber and caster on the car so I am going to have to spend the money for a front end alignment. Once I get the front end aligned, then I can drive the car and see how the shift points are going to work out.