Well, again as I have said in some earlier posts, my resistance to current firewood prices is that they followed the price of fuel oil up several years ago but have stayed about the same while fuel oil dropped in price to less than half of its previous value. That is it, that is the whole thing for me. Brian
I am finding some dealers below $200 / cord on firewood now. As quality and quantity vary so much this may or may not be showing any kind of trend. One dealer is advertising hardwood at $175 / cord with a 2 cord minimum. Still waiting for prices to drop a bit more to reflect the primary heating market, which in southern New England is #2 fuel oil. I would like to keep this thread active and try and track pricing and vendors if at all possible. Brian
Prices are still nuts in Northern Ma/Southern NH. Even the "off season" prices from some people are at or over $300 per cord. Green maybe $250.
I'm just gathering that trees are worth more than oil as public property trees are often used conscientiously in this area more than others. This is just interesting as I find free wood all the time on CL or the like. Folks get rid of it more here, unless they really need to sell or there is no space in their yard for it. Maybe this explains why oil may be high here. Its at 3.07 a gallon with 100 gallon minimum in Seattle but outside areas would likely fluctuate within dimes of this.
Ballard is advertising $2.4x today, which is in line with the current national average. Some of us in New England that have lower transportation costs ( like by barge along the coast out of NJ/NY) often have lower HHO prices than those further inland.
Not sure where you are in MA but a quick scan shows oil prices beginning at $1.68 / gal. as of today, per this site: Oil Prices These are independent oil suppliers and the prices are not part of any contract or service included packages. Cash & carry fuel oil, and the price is delivered. Brian
Do you have access to much hardwood where you are? Not overly familiar with the area but I understand a lot of the west coast / mid- US generally use softwood as firewood. Here in the northeast US, we typically burn hardwood indoors for heat and often softwood outside for campfires, etc. There is a fair amount of firewood available here in various places too; most often homeowners who have stopped using firewood and want to get rid of what is left, or tree cutting remains. As far as fuel oil prices, I think billb3 is right in that there are a lot of transportation costs involved on the west coast. Most of our fuel oil comes from Venezuelan and delivered locally into 'tank farms' so shipping costs are as low by comparison. Brian
Brian Our hardwoods are often considered soft hardwoods but not all of them. A great deal of fruit trees grow very very well here until they become far too old to fruit or they just succumb to maggots as one of my dad's apple trees . Depending on the area, maples are common, sugar, norway and big leaf is too. The common soft hardwood here is Red Alder, wild cherry makes this list too but in respect with immature trees to mature ones, I can't say I have the experience to tell the difference yet in burning the two. Funny thing is that Doug Fir here is considered the hard softwood here, its so plentiful in Western WA and easily ready if cut and split in the early spring. There is oak and white birch around here but often these are trees that get planted as landscape trees and taken out because they grow so fast here. They often grow so large that they'll grow about the size of a 100 year old tree from the East coast in less than half the time. If there is a set of great hardwoods here to note its black locust and Madrona. Pacific Madrona grows near the salt water around here, ranks a Top 5 with what you may know as Live Oak and Hedge Apple. Hard to find something that burns for that long, hot and is Ridiculously hard. Don't bother splitting with a maul if its been in the round or as a dead tree. Im in the middle of cutting one that's been on its side for a while, no bark at all and dulls the chain so quickly. When I first saw it, I thought it was Alder but that stuff cuts so quick compared to Madrona. Black locust is a well known heavy hitter and grows well here too but since madrone is location specific, it only grows on the West coast so its hard to have other woods from here stack up to it in comparison. That's about as good as I can describe it.
Gotcha', thanks for the good explanation. We also have 'soft' hardwoods but generally not 'hard' softwood: all oak is hard, dense wood but maple runs a huge range from excellent, dense hardwood such as sugar maple to the other end, silver maple which is considered a 'pest' tree that invades everything, everywhere, grows fast, has no tap root (meaning they are big and the first ones to go over in a hurricane) but have little- to- no heartwood and are little better than pine for burning IMO. Oak is my favored firewood because it has high density (and BTU's are absolutely and directly related to weight, not volume, of wood as a fuel) is relatively slow burning and has a long coaling time. Oak is plentiful but grows slowly; I have an oak in my front yard that I am told is older than America, a magnificent tree although not beautiful (I am not 'tree smart' other than a handful of species and cannot tell my trees apart, especially after the leaves fall off of the tree). Not sure if it is a Red or White Oak, I have been told but cannot remember; I am sure some or many of the people on this forum could tell me immediately if I took a photo of the leaves. Still, I have made significant effort over the years to preserve it when it would have been easy and free to have cut down; it is growing THROUGH the power lines between telephone poles and the branches there are so large that the power co. trims around them but leaves the actual branches alone. Someday, when it finally does finally fall over, it is going to cause a sizeable blackout..... just the way such a magnificent living thing should go out IMO. (joking but only somewhat) But back to the original thought: how much of what is available as firewood is true hardwood in your area? Put another way, how much of what you (you being the woodburning folks in your area) are burning is true hardwood vs. species such as Doug. Fir? Brian
Well If I had to put it in terms, Doug fir is the high percentage, since its so easily obtained and dried in the same year, its not a surprise it's the more commonly used. That being said, I believe that the hardwood use for heating could be around 25-35%. This is a big guess but the common 3 are cedar, doug fir and pine that's around. Most who live here in the common house are using a fire to have for aesthetic reasons and have the fireplace or outdoor patio burner. I have sold small bins of wood for summer burning, will help with my putting my stove in but marginally so. Anyways the percentage could likely go up for hardwoods as Apple is sold out in Eastern Wa by apple bin. This fits a 1/4 cord but knowing apple can burn really well, this is effective as it dries fast out there and more pine varieties grow past the mountains. Drier and colder part of the state during the winter. I lived in Ellensburg which is mid WA for 2 years for college, winter came early there. Snow by November. Other times it was just super cold. No wood burning but that would have been fun to do.
That is sort of what I had expected but actually a little higher percentage of hardwood. Apple is an excellent burning wood; we run into the occasional stick of it (a tree) now and again. Again, I am not really familiar with burning a great deal of softwoods but from what I have seen as well as heard from other sources, the stuff just does not coal. That is a double- edged sword to be sure because on the one hand, it is entirely consumed faster than a wood that produces a lot of coals but at the same time, at least when the fire dies down, the stove is pretty empty. Burning all oak in a modern, insulated and air tight stove causes real problems because the coaling phase is so long and puts out relatively little heat, at least compared to the actual wood burning part of the process. And if wood is added mid- burn, the stove quickly fills up with coals and it can become impossible to actually heat the house because you have a stove full of a 'too slow' burning fuel. I have a substantial amount of soft maple and my plan is to mix it with oak next year and see how that does; hopefully it will give some of the benefits of both species. Brian
Absolutely! This is what Black Locust is apparently is notorious for, coaling hard so an overnight fire is sustained. The drawback is that its not burned down often when you get back to it in the morning. Those who do find this phenomenon often, they have been loading their stove with a higher percentage of such woods and load it all the way. But in my climate, this may have it's perks to make smaller fires with some specific hardwood if its able to have a better burn time than the other hardwoods I have currently. One thing I want to mention is I have horse chestnut or buckeye as some regard it. Obtained it last year and its been what some consider a soft hardwood. However it doesn't act as some sources on wood say: it spits, only good for indoor stoves, heat is "poor" but other sources on the wood say more positive notes. When I burned it in my outdoor washer tub pit, it burned hot and long. Completely opposite to what I have read. Didn't spit, burned well not "poorly" however I think the only downside is its burning smell. Everything else contradicts the sources. My point to draw from this: Im still learning and Im being surprised by some of the different woods I have never burned before and reading about them gives a better idea about what I COULD expect from them. Now with my mild climate, I have to wonder if the coaling will still work in some regard as if I have plenty of softwoods to turn up the heat and turn coals into ash faster. (Providing I don't melt my stove first!) But the coals may work for the smaller heat requirements, I have to wait to test this out but it may work it may not. Im curious of the adjustment as I could limit hardwood use only to very necessary situations. So figuratively I could end up using more softwoods as the same percentage of people here use that. The softwoods user numbers are high as most cannot tolerate a long long hot fire here as the temps can rise quicker than expected in the winter. Its very possible to light a fire, stock it some more and leave for work that turns from 40° to 65° outside. Id likely arrive to an overheated home! Hard to put a real number to it as some like to mix as well but depending on where they live in the state could likely be a factor. Often its whatever they can find, if it burns they will burn it. I have found that with my outdoor burning, different woods tested provide different results which gives me more insight on when to use it. Its a baseline as it optimizes the open air but doesn't change the fact that the wood burns in a certain way. You using oak and mixing it is great, its what you have used as a staple. Not many have options or seek out different choices. Its based on mostly preference and supply around you.
You can tell the "services added" prices on that list as they are 30¢ or more per gallon higher. If your burner fails they don't come any faster than a call to an Independent service outfit that doesn't also sell oil. A service call is the same price, a yearly ( or whatever your burner manufacturer recommends ) maintenance is the same price. I've done both. Paying a premium for the perception of hand-holding in the middle of Winter is for suckers . There are plenty of them.
OK, it is now 25 July 2017 and firewood prices are starting to fall. There are now three vendors near me selling hardwood for $180, $175 and $350 / two cord. Also the vendor selling at $180 specifies a discount on four cord. The ads for firewood, both inside heating wood and outside pit wood, as well as log length wood seem to be increasing. All of this makes me think that the market is going to to be soft for firewood. #2 fuel oil prices are holding steady at $1.68 / gal., wholesale, delivered, and there is nothing on the horizon that would indicate they will rise. Of course I know oil prices are volatile and no one can predict what may happen in the next weeks or years but again, no turmoil or anything to indicate any price increases coming. On a slightly different topic, I took delivery of the last three mini- splits going into my house today. I am installing these units for A/C only but all the high efficiency units also act as heat pumps and so will deliver heat as well as cooling. Normally I would just ignore this, and I am installing complete oil- fired, hydronic units in the house for heat anyway but after reading a couple of people here (this forum) having heat pumps powered by electricity being competitive with fossil fuel heating, I am curious and will do a little research. Heat pumps work most efficiently when the difference in temperature needed is small, for example when it is 50F outside and a person wants it 70F inside. They lose efficiency the colder it gets (the greater the temperature differential between inside and outside) until they are no more efficient than using heat elements powered directly by electricity, which is prohibitively expensive in this area. But maybe in the spring and fall it may be worth using them? Brian
took 200 gallons here at 215 a today best price I called around.. realize our fuel gets trucked up from Albany area so it is higher the new mini splits are supposed to be much more efficient they are putting them in 5 star homes here
Yeah, pretty efficient, plus easy to get the temp. you want in each room, including 'off' in the rooms you are not using. I had the choice between all the systems, which is basically three; Central air, High Speed Central air (small ducts, 2" or so but they move very fast) and mini- splits. I went with the mini- splits. But because I am installing them internally rather than externally, it is taking a forever and a half. They are meant to plumb through the wall to the outside of the house, then all the plumbing is dropped and placed as needed, and covered in a plastic sleeve that looks like a gutter drain. And they pop out all over the house like afterthoughts. So I went with plumbing them internally and while it looks much better, it is very time consuming. Brian
Well, fuel oil has risen 10 to 15 cents a gallon in the last week or so. Firewood prices are holding and so I finally could not stand it and 'pulled the trigger' on two cord today. Price was $175 / cord, or so it seemed at first; there was a $75 delivery charge on top of that that was not mentioned in the ad. That, coupled with the fact that one cannot pick up firewood from this dealer constitutes fraud IMO. Still, I grabbed two cords for a total of $425. The wood IS seasoned, the pile looks like 2 cord to me, more or less and it is hardwood by the look of it. There was a lot of dirt at the bottom of the dump truck so while the seller claimed the wood was stored on asphalt and showed it that way in the photo, I do not believe this is true. Anyway, I got some wood at an OK price I guess, and so am satisfied. There is another vendor that I think I will try; the price is just a bit higher ($225 / cord so $450 / two cord) but this guy is honest and up- front, rather than running a scam regarding hidden charges on required deliveries. This is what I got today: This is more than enough wood for this coming winter but I want to get further ahead, so will grab at least 2 more cord. I wanted to have gone over to log- length wood this year but with the house project I just cannot spare the time. And when I am being honest, it is far more valuable for me to work on my house than cut and split firewood. And that is why I relented and just bought firewood cut and split. Now Mrs. Brian can start in on those Holz Hausens.... Brian
Definitely seems like a better deal. Usually if anyone is selling wood, its said how far are they willing to travel or within mile increments they specify what the costs will be. Otherwise its included in the cost of the wood. I'm not one to buy wood but I'd send any seller back home if they had any 'extra charges upon arrival'. Basically the big delivery guys,they check the mileage when they arrive at your house then they give you that charge. Selling firewood isn't much of a profit business unless is by bulk but businesses today try to eak out each dollar they can. Note: I am on the West side of the US but I figure if ways of delivering wood is different, it is price of specific types of wood or mixes of hardwood/softwood or blends of both that are likely to be volatile around here. Mostly its seasonal. Its hard to go wrong with mixes but it makes it complicated for the seller as it must be listed as such. To get specific, if you order half a cord of maple and then the other half of different varieties, the seller then has to place these in percentages.(Close as possible as I read the writ requirements) A lot of work if you don't have consistent enough wood....
Yep, I would agree and also send the seller and truck away if the charge was sprung on me but.... he told me over the phone. I actually told him I would get back to him and was going to pass but after thinking about it for a few minutes, and coupled with the fact that he could deliver that day, I called him back and ordered the wood. He did show up that day and the price was as stated in the original sales phone call. Now, all that said, I still think it is 'less than excellent or even good' business practice to pad the price of the wood with delivery and yet not allow the wood to be sold w/out delivery. That makes the whole ad fraudulent IMO. I will not do business with that gentleman again. By the way, he happens to have the same last name as a former illustrious Mayor of ours, in the city of Providence, Buddy Cianci. Now here is the funny part: Buddy Cianci ran for election as the 'anti corruption candidate' and proceeded to reach new heights of corruption. So much so that he was forced from office after a felony conviction for assaulting his wife's boyfriend (!) after he had his state police 'assistants' bring the gentleman to the Mayor's office, and Cianci assaulted the man with an ashtray (!!). It gets better: he gets re-elected (totally the voter's fault of course) and is forced out of office a second time, this time by the Fed. Gov't after being convicted in federal court for racketeering conspiracy (running a corrupt criminal enterprise), in a federal investigation nicknamed 'Operation Plunder Dome'. That one got him some prison time, 5 years in New Jersey. After release he ran for Mayor of Prov. yet again (!!!) but finally enough people woke up that he did not win. Anyway, the firewood dealer has the same last name so perhaps it 'runs in the family'? As I mentioned in a previous post, firewood here in New England is all hardwood for indoor burning. Pine is used for outdoor burning in campfires, fire pits at home, etc. but hardwood is used for heating. Mixed here means a mix of hardwoods although the desirable wood is oak, and that is usually the great majority of what is sold as 'hardwood'. Just sitting down to let the sweat dry a bit after working on the house..... and waiting for round 948. I will buy another two cord from another dealer this year and call it good. Just no time to deal with cutting and splitting firewood this year. Brian
