In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

New Woodstock Ideal Steel installation

Discussion in 'Modern EPA Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Qyota, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. oldspark

    oldspark

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    They do, not my Drolet and neither did the PE.
     
  2. oldspark

    oldspark

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    You are not going to like what I say and please dont take it wrong, you were not burning your NC 13 stove correctly, no way you should have had that much creosote with dry wood and "normal" flue temps. Low flue temps can cause problems due to condensation, the guy with the Blaze King might have had more stove then he needed which would make the problem worse.
    Creosote is one of the easiest things to avoid but it seems like in some cases the facts are ignored.
     
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  3. Kimberly

    Kimberly

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    It was not an NC13. I am now the owner of the stove. Canadian border VT brought the stove new thinking it was because that was the manual inside the stove at the time. I have $125.00 in shipping cost in this stove and it has been sitting covered since I hauled it home. I thought maybe I could use it to heat the shed at some time in the future. It needs repairs that Canadian border VT might help me with. See this thread I did on the stove CFM Corporation Stove
     
  4. oldspark

    oldspark

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    LOL, I just posted what he said and it really makes no difference on the stove brand, the creosote statement still rings true.
     
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  5. BDF

    BDF

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    Nice install. I especially like those long floor tiles BTW.

    Brian

     
  6. BDF

    BDF

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    Not sure I follow what you are saying but what I meant is that most modern wood stoves have very large loading doors on the front and they tend to spill some smoke and flyash into the room that the stove is in.

    Some old designs are far better in this regard, such as the classic pot bellied woodstove, the front loading door was fairly small and located well below the stove pipe attachment point; opening the door on a pot bellied stove with a any decent chimeny would NOT result in any smoke spillage in my experience. Same thing with many old type parlor stoves such as most Round Oak wood stoves, again a fairly small door so the chimney could pass all the air that the door let in.

    Brian

     
  7. branchburner

    branchburner

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    Just to chime in on where I measure temps on my Ideal Steel: I use an IR gun and when the combustor is active on a low burn, the hottest spot will be in the center of the top, about 6-8 inches from the rear of the stove (mine is rear vented, so this location is where the gases would exit on a top vent). Measuring back from the front of the stove, the first foot or so is the top-lift door, which is quite a bit cooler than the slightly-raised rear portion of the stove top.

    I have found on a high burn when the tubes are very active the front face of the stove right above the door can get REALLY hot, even hotter than I have noticed the stove top getting. Quite a change from my old Oakwood, wher secondaries took place in the rear burn chamber of the stove (which regularly pushed 800f even as the top cruised at 600f).
     
  8. oldspark

    oldspark

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    I dont understand what you dont understand, my Drolet and PE are new type stoves and they did not do it (in one case with two different chimneys).
    What stoves are you referring to and how big a door?
     
  9. Kimberly

    Kimberly

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    I had smoke spillage on my Madison when I first got it. I thought due to the chimney not tall enough. So I increased the height by three feet but still have smoke spillage. I set the alarm off twice this week due to smoke coming out of the door. The Madison does have a large door, I think the largest door that ESW has on any of their models. Now I do have the 90 elbow on the stove pipe, and it goes through the wall where there is a tee. So those two things might contribute to my smoke spillage.
     
  10. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    I'd argue that. None of the modern stoves I have ever owned (or operated) tend to spill...even the Vogelzang. The only ones I ever had that spilled were old non EPA burners.
    If modern stove designs spill, then it is the exception rather than the rule...and even then I'd say its more often than not a chimney issue rather than a stove design issue...
     
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  11. BDF

    BDF

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    I did not understand the sentence where you said "They do, not my Drolet and neither did the PE." It looks like you were agreeing at first 'They do' and then specifying that you had two stoves that apparently did not. Hence my misunderstanding.

    Your last post is clear to me though. :) And yep, we disagree, which as always is perfectly fine of course.

    My Woodstock Soapstone Ideal Steel will leak both smoke and flyash if the door is left open during startup or whenever the stove is running. The door opening measures 17" X 10" to the smoke skirt and the actual opening in the front of the stove is 17" X 12". I have 32 feet of brand new, clean DuraVent double walled Stainless Steel chimney with an outstanding draft and no other appliances on that chimney but that stove. The basic problem is that the smoke pipe, being just under 30 Sq. In. will not overcome all the smoke the wood is giving off plus all the air that flows into the stove through the door opening. Most of it DOES flow up the chimney to be sure but some flows out of the stove at the upper lip of the door opening. If I leave the door open long enough, it will trip the smoke detector in the same room as the wood stove, although it does not trigger the smoke detector if opened, loaded quickly and then quickly closed. The basic problem is that it is easier for some of the smoke, especially that generated toward the front of the stove, to simply flow into the room than to flow across the inside of the stove and join the other air / smoke flowing up the chimney. Opening the door requires that the 6" diameter chimeny pull hard enough to maintain a negative pressure across at least 170 Sq. In. area, which it cannot do.

    Putting a draft inducer on the chimney eliminated the problem; I can leave the door fully open while starting a fire or once a fire is well established. In fact, I can remove the door from the stove, take it outside and clean the glass, and then re-install the stove all while the stove is fully engaged and running..... but only with the draft inducer in place. Also, with the draft inducer on I can fully open the door, reach into the stove with a hoe and push and pull the ashes all around until they all drop through the grate without getting any flyash in the room, and that too was impossible without the draft inducer.

    Several people have complained about this issue with various stoves and I merely presented a possible solution to their problem; I only mention this because it worked for me and has entirely removed the problem of the stove leaking material (smoke, smell and ash) into the room. I am certainly not suggesting everyone or even any single person buy or install a draft inducer based on my experience or remarks, I am simply sharing some small knowledge and experience I have gained with others to use as they see fit to do so.

    Brian

     
  12. BDF

    BDF

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    Yep, it is a common issue. One gentleman on this forum actually said that while he found his Ideal Steel did not leak smoke, his wife asked him where the stench was coming from while he was loading that very stove. <chuckle> I suspect most or all large door stoves do leak but it is not enough of an issue to annoy some people.

    Brian

     
  13. BDF

    BDF

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    OK but not with me- you will have to find another sparring partner, or take both sides and argue with yourself. The very best of luck to both of you.

    :D

    Besides, we can find common ground: I bet we both agree 100% that YOUR stove is not spilling ANY smoke or ash into MY house. And that is plenty good enough for me. :rofl: :lol:

    Brian

     
  14. Kimberly

    Kimberly

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    The draft inducer is too pricey for me at the moment. I even tried cracking the door open for a bit to make sure the fire was burning as hot as it could and still had the smoke issue. The smoke spillage is the biggest annoyance I have with my stove, other than that, it is a great stove but it may be the large door as BDF stated.
     
  15. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Did you ever eliminate that 90* elbow in your stove pipe? That will help, or may even eliminate the issue.
    Just like Qyota did...
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. BuckthornBonnie

    BuckthornBonnie

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    I’m never lucky except in saws and woodstoves—— the only smoke spillage I get from my stoves (all 5 that I’ve run since 1995ish) is during initial startup or a load up with a questionable draft (cool flue temps, warm outside temps).
    Stoves were Fisher, Timberine, Blaze King pre-epa, Avalon Spokane, Lopi Liberty.
    When a draft is cranking, I can leave the doors open on my two house stoves and get 0 smoke spillage.
    Not getting in the discussion at all, just mentioning my experience with smoke in stove rooms.

    Edit— various installs (exterior, masonry w liner, thru-the-wall, etc.), too.
    By “door open” I mean cracked open at least. I’ve had em wide open before but don’t make a habit of that lol. I simply don’t get smoke into the stove room when the door is closed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  17. BDF

    BDF

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    You can get a galvanized draft inducer without the speed control a bit cheaper but I think they will still be $100 or so, and that is not really a great way to go for a wood stove smoke pipe anyway. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any less expensive devices that operate this way although there may be some out there.

    Brian

     
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  18. BDF

    BDF

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    Hey, it is fine to join in this discussion as far as I know, we are just chatting here. No animosity or rudeness from anyone as far as I can tell and respectful disagreements are part of a normal interaction as far as I know, that is why ice cream comes in different flavors. :handshake: Besides all of that, no one has called anyone else 'wrong', we are merely coming at the same or similar situation from different points of view, at least that is how I see it.

    And I guess I would agree with your experience entirely because sometimes my stoves have NOT spilled smoke into the room either, which is basically what you said only I said it backwards. So to say what I said before in a different context, my stove will not spill any smoke or ash into the room even when the draft is poor, the stove and chimney are cold, during initial startup or any other time.... as long as the draft inducer is running. :D When the draft is cranking, I too get a pretty clean 'door open' situation. :)

    Brian

     
  19. HDRock

    HDRock

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    Is it choochin better now ?
     
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  20. Sconnie Burner

    Sconnie Burner

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    Lets all just face it....if we wanted completely smoke free, flyash free, bark free, hassel free, labor intensive free, heat we wouldn't be doing what we do. Some of us like to over engineer the whole process and others like the KISS method. Wood creates fire, fire creates smoke and heat, and we have to deal or create methods to overcome certain things we don't like.

    Me, I don't mind a little wood heat "smell" and the telltale flyash dust around the house. It reminds me of the work and accomplishment I went through to create the cozy heat my family greatfully enjoys!