In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

IS ash removal

Discussion in 'Modern EPA Stoves and Fireplaces' started by chucker, Nov 24, 2015.

  1. chucker

    chucker

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    i ordered the stove sans ash drawer and needed a strategy to deal with cleaning. what bothered me about my previous jotul 500 stove was the large amount of charcoal that would go through the bottom grate and wind up in the ash drawer. i wind up taking ash out of the IS stove nearly every day as it's compulsive to do what can be done to keep the wood scheme in normal order. this is the deal. i take a 1 gallon stainless bucket and put a trimmed and edge folded piece of 1/4" hardware cloth over it. when the coals are low the bucket gets put into the stove on one side, and ashes, or small live coals mixed with ashes, get scooped on top of the hardware cloth with the large pieces that won't screen falling over the side. i never do a completely thorough job just plenty good enough. the ash gets put in a galvanized garbage can outside and is mostly grey and fine and very little charcoal which could be only small pieces at best. it's not necessary to go through the bother but honestly it isn't much work. anything that can burn, either live coals or charcoal, largely remains in the stove and all that needs to go on my landscape fill pile is fine ash. its less to remove than there used to be at about a half gallon per day.
     
  2. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover

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    Huh. My grated stoves don't let coals bigger than about 1/8" through, so I don't mess with it.
     
  3. chucker

    chucker

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    there's an ash shovel with a grate on top of it that you can slide into a fireplace or stove that makes the process pretty easy. i should probably get one. the jotul would drop reasonably large coals and charcoal down to the ash drawer. it had about half inch slots on the bottom.
     
  4. jetjr

    jetjr

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    Something like this. Sift the fines to one side dump the coals on the other. Made a homemade ash dragon as well. 20151126_195230.jpg
     
  5. BDF

    BDF

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    Yep, the I.S. has an extremely fine set of slots in the bottom and I find I really have to work the coals and ash back and forth a LOT to get the ash to fall through.

    This is a classic double- edged sword: too big a grate and coals fall through, too small and the slots are not really useful. And I have not yet seen one the right size :)

    The ash pan on the I.S works OK when it is not too cold outside but once winter is here it really will not keep up with the amount of wood going into the stove I find. Then it is time for a shovel and a bit of a mess.

    I think the I.S. could really benefit from a shaker grate.

    Brian

     
  6. fire_man

    fire_man

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    This is the first time I have ever read a thread saying a WS ash grate system was not perfect. I would like to know what are the width of the slots in the IS grate and I will compare with the Palladian and Progress, both work perfectly. I don't see why WS would deviate from a tried and true ash grate design.
     
  7. BDF

    BDF

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    The slots are 5/16" (0.3125"). What might be the bigger problem is that they are spaced at 1" between (not center- to- center) the slots, so there are not that many slots in the entire grate.

    As I said, it takes many trips over the grate for the ash to separate and fall into the ash pan. I use a full size garden hoe and it is still a pain in the butt.

    My previous stoves have had a stainless steel weldment grate, which was basically 1/8" thick blades welded about 3/4" apart. The ashes (and some smaller coals) fell through without agitation or movement of any kind, and the small coals just burned down in the ash pan.

    I like my I.S. a lot but it is not perfect IMO and I have made several changes I consider improvements.

    Brian

     
  8. Babaganoosh

    Babaganoosh

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    I think you could easily hit up a metal fabricator and get one made that meets your ideal specs. I don't find the grate to be an issue but if there's an improved one to be had I'll jump on that train.
     
  9. fire_man

    fire_man

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    I just measured the Progress Grates. They are identical to BDF's measurements - 5/16th wide slots separated by 1" .
    All I have to do is slightly agitate a few times with a small hoe and the ash falls through so I'm not sure why they would clog or take many trips over the grate to agitate down.

    It must have something to do with the consistency of the ashes. Mine are very powdery and fall right through. If they were sticky/clumpy I could see it would be a problem. Possibly the type of wood matters?
     
  10. BDF

    BDF

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    If I let the stove burn down so there is nothing but ash in it, it may well rake differently and better. I rake mine down when the ashes are mixed with several inches of coals. I cannot wait to burn the coals all the way down because the stove will not put out enough heat in that condition to heat the house when the outside temp. is low. Again, I use my woodstove as my primary heat source and once it gets consistently cold outside (below 30F), I have used a woodburner to heat the house 100% since 1990. I do not let the stove 'go out' when it is cold so any type of attendance such as ash removal has to happen while the stove is producing significant heat. This is also the root of the coals building up- if I could tolerate the stove running at, say, 30% heat output while the coals burned down then there would not be a problem. But as coals will not produce adequate heat (without a bottom draft) and yet end up being around 1/2 of the stove's volume, it becomes a problem to keep the stove putting out sufficient heat 24/7.

    This winter is the first time I have had an adequate central heating system, coupled with $1.75 / gal. #2 fuel oil, it may be a different story.

    Brian

     
  11. BDF

    BDF

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    I have a stainless steel 'plate' grate ready to go but frankly am wary of letting too many coals fall into the I.S. ash pan as it is so thin. I am wary that too much heat below the grate will beat the hell out of the ash pan at best, and warp the ash pan container or door at worst.

    All of my previous stoves have been heavier than 1/8" steel for the bottom of the stove and would take coals burning down below the grate safely.

    Brian

     
  12. fire_man

    fire_man

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    Brian, it almost sounds like you are, indeed, raking all of the ash down into the pan, but since the stove is not throwing enough heat with tons of remaining coals, you are trying to rake down some of the coals into the pan to make room for more wood.

    Essentially you are mechanically turning coals into ash (lots of raking across the grate).That sounds like pain. Does this sound right?

    I've read a few posts saying the IS can build a big coal base. My guess is the IS has stingy air intake volume to milk long burn times. The only solution is to open up the draft when it gets down to the coaling stage.

    As always, make sure the wood is well seasoned, since wet wood = annoying coaling problem.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  13. BDF

    BDF

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    Well I think it is more like sifting the ashes out of the coals. The coals stay in the stove just about 100% of the time.

    Another thing to remember is that comparing an Ideal Steel with a Progress Hybrid, for example, is that the I.S. only has about 1/3 of the bottom of the stove as grate, the rest is firebrick. So a lot of ash (and coals if they are mixed) must be dragged from each side of the stove to the middle repeatedly. And I have to rake N/S, or across the short side of the stove rather than E/W like one would with the Progress (and I believe, all the other Woodstock stoves).

    When I bought my I.S., I saw two significant advantages that the Progress had: end- door loading (and ash scraping), and a full grate the size of the stove.

    Please do not think that I am complaining or bashing the stove, I like the I.S. very much; it is just a relatively minor issue getting ashes out of the stove while it is running. I think I will look at some of the screen covered shovels and consider going that way instead of using the ash grate.

    Brian

     
  14. fire_man

    fire_man

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    Now I get the picture. A small grate surface area coupled with raking on the short side of the stove sounds like more effort. I know the IS is a super stove, but every stove has it's
    little glitches. One of the Progress glitches is you can't (or at least I can't) load the stove with any significant flame in the firebox unless I remember to completely close the draft, or I get TONS of smoke pouring into the room from the air intake :headbang:.
     
  15. BDF

    BDF

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    Yeah, well I have a draft inducer fan in the smoke pipe above the stove- the I.S. has a larger door than the Progress and will smoke up a house right- quick. :) I turn on the inducer each and every-time I open the stove door: end of problem and it also makes stirring up ashes and so forth much nicer as there are absolutely no ash fines floating around in the house. The extremely fine, white layer of ash all over everything in the room where the woodstove is located does not occur here but only because of the draft inducer.

    I have been toying with the idea of a hot ash vacuum- but one that dumps into a barrel in the yard. That would make cleaning ashes fast and easy and any ensuing fire from hot coals would be inside a steel barrel. Really what I am thinking of is a centrifugal air pump rather than a true vacuum.

    Brian

     
  16. fire_man

    fire_man

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    Did you buy the draft inducer just for the IS? I hear those things are not cheap but are very effective. It's worth it just to eliminate the fine dust.
    I have not read many if any posts about the ash Vac. I would look into one of the ash sifters first, especially with your draft inducer.
     
  17. BDF

    BDF

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    Yes, I bought the draft inducer after installing the I.S.. My previous stove had different doors of different sizes and I almost always used the smallest one so did not have the problem.

    A draft inducer is only about $150 and absolutely, positively eliminates the problem of smoke and ash in the house.... provided you use the stove in any reasonable way of course.

    Brian

     
  18. Babaganoosh

    Babaganoosh

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    Just have a piece of plate steel cut to line the bottom of the ash pan. Either that or shovel into bucket and take outside. Unfortunately that negates the ash pan to some degree but I have a tendency to over think things so I have to force myself back to the KISS method.
     
  19. chucker

    chucker

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    brian. just a thought. if you like to clean with a full bed of coals, which is always going to be harder than when the stove is very low, then the hoe/rake from the top is always going to be fighting the coals and breaking them down. perhaps a flat straight tool like a trowel, or ice breaker, could be shoved under the coals on a more frequent basis and would only affect the fine ash.