In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

I have an expensive idea

Discussion in 'OWB's and Gasification Boilers' started by CDF_USAF, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. CDF_USAF

    CDF_USAF

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    So I have been a long time lurker, as in years...since the beginning... registered, never really posted but read a lot. I have a 1600ish SFT multi-level house in Delaware. I would like to heat with wood instead of oil, more for the independence thing, some outside physical work and maybe keep the house warmer. The most we've spent on oil in 4 years is 1100, and lets face it, I'll spend that on toys er um tools to do this. I only have one chimney currently and the house lay-out being a multi- level I would need a furnace. I also only have basement access through the house.

    I am thinking; to keep the peace(think city wife I picked up in UT) and to distribute the heat semi evenly I could use a boiler outside, which would allow me to heat the house, water, garage and/or maybe a hot tub eventually. I like the heatmaster g100 and the woodgun OBE. My thoughts are to put it up against the house and run a stack up past the roof like a regular chimney. I emailed AHS and they said it would work with the wood gun, but holy crap on that price. I haven't heard back from heatmaster yet, but it only requires 6" clearance to combustibles so it should work, we'll see what they say.

    This would almost eliminate the outside lines, any smoke would be up like a regular stove, and the mess outside. There are many wood burners in the neighborhood, and even one older CB, but I still don't want to be that guy so that's my reasoning for a full chimney. Anyways, what are you thoughts? I wont be able to do anything till I get back in Jan so purely in a planning stage.
     
  2. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Howdy CDF! So are you dead set on going boiler? Its a big commitment, in many ways. I'm a big fan of forced air indoor wood furnaces...there are some good options out there that won't break the bank. And it's not that hard to add a class A chimney for it either...good DIY project if you are handy at all.
    As far as not having outdoor access to the basement...add a wood chute...here's a good example... Wood chute pictures
     
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  3. Deer Meadow Farm

    Deer Meadow Farm

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    I like an OWB. We have radiant floor heat and my wife likes to keep the house (uncomfortably) warm. OWB heats our domestic HW as well and as you mentioned, the mess is outside.
    I have a CB (and would not recommend it) but one thing you'll have to look at is if you need access on the side where the stack is if you plan to put it right against the house. My CB has access to the fan, solenoids, drain, connections and a clean out in the back for example.
    I always look at new OWB's whenever I'm at a show and after having mine for 6 years, the ability and ease of cleaning is high on my list of things to look for. That being said, I spoke with the president of Portage and Main at the Northeast Logging show in Bangor Maine this past spring and I have to say I am very impressed with their design. If I hit the lottery right now and replaced my CB that's where I'd go for my replacement.
     
  4. CDF_USAF

    CDF_USAF

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    Thank you for the responses, I have strongly considered a wood furnace, I do like the looks and price of the new Englander furnace. Whoever built my house really did not set it up for wood heat with out some serious re-arrangements so I end up going back to the boiler route, either an indoor unit in a shed with some sort of small storage/buffer or an outdoor stand alone, depending on what I can find for the best value. Main reasons being that I don't really have a good spot for a second chimney, ease of access, and the ability to heat more items from one unit.

    Deer Meadow, I need to do some more research on P&M, CB is the closest but the warranty and horror stories are pushing towards other units. Heatmaster and AHS seem to be next as far as dealers, the closest(2hrs).
     
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  5. TurboDiesel

    TurboDiesel

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    You say you have an oil forced air furnace now?
    If a free standing wood stove is not an option, I think an outside wood boiler would be the next best option, especially for multiple buildings and domestic hot water.

    Its pretty easy to install a class 2 double wall flue, they can even be boxed in and sided to look better
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. CDF_USAF

    CDF_USAF

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    Yes, currently have oil forced air. I don't think a free stander would work because of my layout, I thought about power-venting the oil and installing the new Englander furnace, or upgrading the furnace to a new high efficiency propane, but moving the wood through the house may prove to be difficult, and I grew up with wood heat. But the boiler and mess outside is really appealing. I am a pretty capable person, as far as doing the work side of everything. I'll go look at as many of them as possible when I can. I'm still researching the cost and all that good stuff, just now I'll have a few extra pennies when I get home, and just made the final car payment on my wifes car.
     
  7. Highbeam

    Highbeam

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    Boilers are extremely expensive. Not just the actual boiler but you'll spend that much again before you're done on the rest of the installation. Easy 15k.
     
  8. chris

    chris

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    Not mention checking any local or county codes as far as owb are concerned. that guy in the neighborhood could be grandfathered in. There some indoor boilers as well. The payback time is pretty long on boilers systems though due to their cost. I 'm not to sure on those add on floor heating panels that get stuck up between the joists. I have not looked at the cost of those retrofit panels either. Another one to check out is Woodmaster - their latest one- does not use a water jacket, it is cat design for the burn chamber- exhaust is where the heat is pulled from, likely pricy as sin, haven't had the guts to call and ask the $ question. Using a water to air heat exchanger in the plenum of existing furnace gets the heat distribution going without a few miles of pex strung on the basement ceiling. A daunting task at best.
    My local gov has banned owb, at least in the residential sections . I'm out in the sticks, my land is currently AG for tax purposes Do not know if AG part makes a difference,as it is not spelled out in the ordinance. Or what is considered in town per say, as the town proper is only a couple blocks long and believe population is less than 1K for whole town area. ( looks like a case of board members jumping on a band wagon- whats new eh? ).
     
  9. CDF_USAF

    CDF_USAF

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    I'm in town limits but not city limits, I still need to find out if it is even allowed. In reality it is expensive either way I go. Thoughts were that the wood boiler would be able to heat more and keep mess out. I'll keep researching, have another 4 months.
     
  10. VOLKEVIN

    VOLKEVIN

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    I have researched the brands to death, and I selected a Portage & Main. When I close on my new house, that install is the first project! Central Boiler has slick marketing, videos, and brochures...but the more I researched it became clear that they are the highest complained-about company with the worst customer service and standing behind their warranty. Site after site, it was complaint after complaint from customers who had operational problems/ materials failing and CB basically was hanging them out to dry. It really made me leary of a CB brand OWB. Since this was my first venture into the OWB realm, I really wanted to go by simplicity and reputation. P&M named their company after a close by intersection up in Canada- acknowledged as one of the coldest intersections in the world. I figure if their units keep the Canadians warm and toasty, it should work for me, haha. The other thing they were big on is not having crazy custom parts- they emphasized that you can fix/replace parts on their boilers with a trip to the hardware store. Last but not least, they have an installing dealer not far from me, and I think that also carries some weight. I won't feel like I'm out on an island. I called up there and had a couple of separate conversations with their staff, who were outstanding and took a lot of time with me. In the end it was an easy decision to go with the P&M.

    I'll keep everyone posted and pictured on the install and results.
     
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  11. CDF_USAF

    CDF_USAF

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    Well after further thought, research and all that good stuff. I am leaning away from the boiler route, unit+install is looking like 10k, that's about an 8 year ROI for me, which wouldn't be bad but I only have 6 years till retirement from the AF and I'm most likely moving at that point.

    So with that being said, I'm going to have to come up with a way to move wood/ash through the house cleanly and efficiently. The new Englander 28-4000 looks good, and also the D.S. Machine ecomiser looks nice but doesn't look like its epa approved but has re-burn tubes and uses a bi-metallic thermostat. This route will require either a power vent for the oil side or a change to a propane unit. Any thoughts on these furnaces?
     
  12. chris

    chris

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    The Englander furnace is based on the tried and true NC30 stove. Nothing fancy just a plate steel stove that works well and meets the current EPA specs. A friend has the previous model furnace- has no complaints. I had a nc 30 in my former home- no complaints there either- soon as I close on the new to me place likely go that route again. I'd go with the furnace but exhaust/ flue is proving to be a bit on the challenging side. almost 2 stories tall all outside, $ ouch. Ds unit is wood/ coal which means it is optimized for burning coal- that seldom works out well for wood as a fuel- about double the quanity of a true wood only unit ( NC 30- I went through about 3 cord/ season, late Sept - May, the last couple years ) the reburn tubes get them bye for current specs but not beyond as to what is coming down the pike, not that the current Englander unit is a lot different in that respect. Ashes are going to be an every couple day affair with either unit. SBI ( Canadian firm) Drolet has 4 hot air rigs , Heatpack, Heatmax ll, Tundra ll, Heatpro. The Tundra has been available for a few years, not sure on others. All are indoor furnaces and are not coal rated units just wood.
     
  13. CDF_USAF

    CDF_USAF

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    Yes the chimney is expensive, about $1100 from the basement for a single story house. I have a masonry chimney with a 6 in S/S liner that is currently hooked to the oil furnace I am going to use for the time being. I will research the others you have mentioned and try to track those down in my area when I get back. Thanks for the ideas.
     
  14. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    With a little shopping you can cut some cost off a new chimney. I just did a new Supervent brand class A chimney in my in-laws new ranch house for something like $550 total. Was purchased from Menards...I know you don't have those near you, but they ship, and I bet even with shipping costs there would be a good cost savings to be had, especially if you caught a sale, which is likely coming up here soon. They do them sporadically throughout the winter starting in the fall...IIRC I paid $65 per 36" section with sale and rebate price. https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...59-c-6894.htm?tid=3826447150169533598&ipos=25
    As far as getting the wood to the heater...I have to cross carpet to get to the stove in the living room...I've found a regular ole bucket works well...very little mess.
    You are right on that DS furnace...its not really a secondary burn unit. I'd go with the Englander or a Drolet...