Getting a new truck, compare RAM EcoDiesel vs F150 Platnum??

Those diesel Titans are the cats azz!

 

EPA- the reason I switched back to gas ( ethanol sucks didn't work in the 30's ain't no better now) vs oil burners, It will be around 20 years before they work out all the bugs because of the new oil burner rules.
Not that gas is that much better ( sucks for heavy towing long distance) but maintenance is less over the long haul. For me its a 10 year investment - by that time, due to my location, most of the unit is shedding parts as you drive down the road from rust induced by the road salts of winter. I got 15+ years out of my last oil burner - by that time even the frame had gone back to nature. I have experienced most of the typical issues of the current stuff over the past 16 years brands not withstanding - irritating to say the least, in some cases costly because I could not do the remediation myself.
Boils down to this: ya either get a good one out of the gate or a unit that is going to put you in the poor house real quick.
Pricing- my first 4 homes( individually) didn't cost as much as one of these trucks for that matter a lot of the cars as well and they are all still standing, something I can't say for the vehicles.

 

If were talking max towing with a 1/2 ton, I still think gas will do MUCH better in the power department over the mini diesels. The 3.5 ecoboost and the 6.2 Ecotec reign king in the power department, and the other gas engines are still pretty darn good.

I've started watching "The Fast Lane Truck" videos on youtube. They guys are a little goofy, but I like their test. They load down a trailer, and then drive up the pass outside Denver to the Eisenhower Tunnel, trying as best as they can to stay at 65mph. Not many trucks can do it as the hill is so steep. I've yet to see a 1/2 ton diesel do better than the gassers.

Ford Ecoboost vs Ram EcoDiesel: 7.38 minutes for Ford, 9.03 minutes for Ram

This is the little ecoboost as well, that 2.7 liter!

2015 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel: Ike Gauntlet Extreme Towing [Video] - The Fast Lane Truck


Since the Titan was brought up, here's a comparison of the 2 engines in the Titan XD, the 5.6 gas and the 5.0 diesel.

Gas wins at 9.44 minutes to the diesel 10.30 minutes.

2016 Nissan Titan XD Gas vs. Titan XD Diesel: Super Ike Gauntlet Towing Review - The Fast Lane Truck

The only area diesel wins is in fuel economy, which I'm not sure matters when you take into account the extra upfront cost for the diesel engine, the extra cost of fuel, and the extra maintenance costs.

This is all 1/2 tons mind you, if you tow a lot a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel truck is still the best way to go. Most people don't need that capability though.

 

Fyi, cummins is soon no more in dodge trucks. Fiat, who now owns chrysler, wants to support their current subsidiart companies in europe. That's why the eco diesel is makin itself use dull in the 1500 dodges, it's a stepping stone to phasing out the Cummins brand association to dodge.

 

Now we're talking!

 

Ford has to be drooling at this news...there are a ton of 3/4 - 1 ton diesel owners that only own a Dodge for one reason...Cummins.

 

I'm one of them. ...

 

At a .50 pump price difference (right now it's much less than that here) I break even in fuel cost with my 6.7 compared to the 5.4 f150 I had. DEF is cheap and you don't use much at all so it doesn't add much cost. That said, especially the def and egr systems are prone to failure so some parts fell off my truck

 

That said, diesels are more expensive to maintain. I don't know the specs on the ecodiesel, but my 6.7 holds 13 quarts which is a costly oil change using good 5/40 synthetic oil. Every other oil change I do fuel filters which I buy in bulk but it's still about 40 bucks a shot. I do it all myself at 6000 mile intervals but the oil change/filter runs about a 100 then about 140 for the next with the fuel filters. You could probably double that at a dealer for both.

A buddy of mine has an ecodiesel that he's already put over 60,000 on in a little over a year and he's never had a single issue. He's in the mid to high 20's for economy as well. He went one size bigger when he replaced the tires and that really made a nice difference in appearance.

 

Of course.... and that is why I'm a "high end" guy, need the leather and all the bells and whistles, it's not a work truck for me. And I'll say if you were put blindfolded into a Ram 1500 Longhorn and a Ford F150 Platinum side by side and opened your eyes, you would be hard pressed to be able to say which one you were in. They are so similar, same with nav screen, features, seats.... To me, they are the same, I'd take either.

VERY easy. I DON'T!! The trick is, and I can NOT say this loud enough guys, PLEASE LISTEN CLOSELY! DO NOT play their game. What I mean about that is, each dealer ship and saleperson is trained to play games with you and control the process. And they are most of the time really good at it, and 99% of people have no idea it is going on. How many people have you herd buy a car or truck and they tell you: "Oh yea, I got a great deal so I bought it!" OR "Oh, I talked them way down on price"... OR "I got it for what I wanted it for"... Well, I have bad news for each and every last un-suspecting customer who bought and walked away stating those type of statements... NO YOU DIDN'T! In almost all cases, you got the vehicle at the price THEY wanted to sell it for to YOU. I purposely highlighted the words "they" and "you" in that last statement, reason being is salesfolks are trained to have an eye on what type of person you are when you walk in. In other words, are you desperate for a vehicle, are you wealthy and although everyone wants a good deal really aren't that concerned about how much it costs, or are you broke and can't afford what your looking at, or are you the type that are the average Joe and really want/need it at a good price and will be shopping around... They look at what you drive in with, is it clean, is it a clunker, is it a Range Rover all shinned up, is it the same vehicle (in this case a truck) a few years old that you obviously are looking to upgrade/replace, what are you wearing, what kind of clothes.... you know the typical things people look at to determine there "status". And no, they are not always right, but most of the time they are. They also pick up on the clues you inadvertently give them, like "I'm looking for a truck, my wife drives a Range Rover...." Or, "I am the CEO of AT&T", or "I have my own construction company", or "I am looking for a commuting car". With all this, your telling the saleman and dealership (the mngr/finance dept.. will be involved at some point) too much information they will use against you!

They then use this info against you at every time they can. For example if your in a hurry to get a vehicle and they know this, they can easily pressure you to make a decision with statements like "2 other customers are looking at this truck already". Sure, these are obvious things, I'm sure you all are saying come on Machria, we don't fall for that crap... BUT, you do! Whether you think so or not, it's in the back of you mind and changes your thinking and info processing without you even really know it. And of course, this is a simplified example, it gets more complicated... The real point is they are controlling the process, they try to control the conversaion and as much of the process as possible all the way down to which vehicle you test drive first. They want you to not like the first one, so they purposely ask you to humor them and drive the cheaper version, smaller engine... so you get out and sa "no, I really want more power...". Then they put you in the truck they know you want and now it feels even better compared to the junk you just tested. Lots of little games like this. It can also go the other way, if they think you can aford a high priced truck, but you are looking at cheap ones, they will have you humor them and test drive the expensive one first, now you fall in love with the leather/bells and whistles and when you get in the cheap one, suddelny you think you really aught to up the anti and spend more money and get the high end truck.....

So, the good part! How do you avoid all this? DO NOT TELL THE SALESMAN OR ANYONE ELSE at the dealership ANYTHING! Tell them VERY specifically what you are looking for, and state that is the ONLY thing you are interested in looking at or talking about. The second they change the subject or mention something else you may be interested in, show him/her the hand and stop them, and repeat what you are only interested in. Do not small talk with the saleman, stick to biz. You know the "anything you say may be used against you...", this holds true at a dealership! You do NOT want to be "friends" with the saleman, you want to do biz with him. In fact, it helps to be unfriendly, he/she will be more direct, and get to lower price quicker because they don't want to talk to you.

Now when you have the vehicle you want picked out, simply figure out what it is worth to YOU. Not what the dealership probably wants, but what you are willing to pay for the vehicle. Use whatever data you want, comparisons to other vehicles, other dealerships, online prices, what your friends have paid.... and come up with what you are comfortable paying. Now simply offer that price to them with a detailed description of how you will and pay and when. Ex: "I will offer you $40k for truck xyz, I will put 10k down, finance 30k, and would like to do it today,". Then, the MOST IMPORTANT part, tell him "I will NOT negotiate, that is my final price, so please get me a Yes or No answer, thank you".

Now you have taken control of the conversation and process. The saleman will very likely say, "well, everything is negotiable, we will see, I don't think they will let me sell if for this low, we are losing money.... bla bla bla". STOP HIM MID SENTANCE! DO NOT let him/her finish this hogwash. Simply cut him off and say, "That is fine, if they are not interested in the deal, I will keep looking elsewhere".

Now the hard part, you will almost always, I'd say 4 out of 5 times get a NO answer. You must stand up, say "ok, thank you and nice to meet you", reach out and shake his hand and walk out. One of two things will occur, he will stop you and try just about anything to keep you there at which point you must completely be rude and say "I'm not interested, it's that deal or nothing, sorry". Or they will let you walk. The real trick is to WALK. It will kill them to watch you walk out the door. There are 1000's or millions of trucks and dealerships and you have lots of options. You do not need their truck, but they need your sale! Remember that. There is always another truck, almost identical to the one your looking at. They are NOT RARE! They pop out of the plant every 10 seconds!

After you walk out, 9 times out of ten they will call you the next day and either except your offer or offer a counter offer. Do not except the counter offer, stick with your price and repeat your deal to him on phone. That or nothing. Most of the time, you will win. Sometimes you won't, but again, there are LOTS of other trucks, you will find one so don't be so in love with that particular one. If you do walk out and lose on a deal, it's ok, the next time you walk in there, they will know you are serious when you make an offer. They will consider your next offer much more closely knowing you will likely walk if they don't except. Remember, if you lose on a deal, they lose too!

The key is, you control the conversation, you control what you look at, and you control the deal, not them. Do not let them dictate to you price, a monthly payment, a deposit, what car you test drive.... YOU control it. DO NOT PLAY THERE GAME. The old back and fourth to the manager crap is ridiculous.

Hope that helps.

 

From what I have read, the little 3.0 L Ecodiesel cost the same as any other motor, no difference. The one thing that many had to change early (25k miles) is the cat converters, but they are covered for 7 years anyway as part of the "powertrain" warranty.

 

New 2016 Platinum trucks here on LI are $62 to 68k. Pre-owned certified 2015 Platinum trucks with 20k mileage or less on them are between $42 and 47k. That is a 30% reduction in cost, in less than 1 year. How do ya figure?

 

Nice write up...and true words. I made the mistake of working in sales at a dealership for a year...hated the "game". BUT, the thing that finally put me over the edge, and back at "bending wrenches" was that I was SO SICK of being lied to by "customers"... wasting my time...car salesmen have a bad name for a reason I suppose...but 99% of customers are just as bad these days.
...steps off soapbox...

 

I've only looked at 2 of the Rams that have the bed boxes on them, they don't sell a lot of them rigged that way here on LI apparently. Both of them were dead even, and I know that because I was inspecting that gap very closely because of the "large" gap you mentioned. I wondered if rain/sleet/snow and ice... will get stuck/freeze in there where you could not open it on a cold day.... you know, those days you get freezing rain or snow that melts in daytime and then refreezes over night....? But I figured it's not that often it occurs, and big deal I have to break off the ice on it to get it open a few times a year. But that assumes I need to get in those boxes in the dead of winter, which I probably don't. But they looked fine cosmetically. But they are NOT built like tanks, that is for sure. It's a pretty cheap top/lid and lock on it. Would not be that hard to crow bar it open for a theif. But I would not keep anything of real value in there... .jumper cables, battery pack... a few oddball tools... no biggie. It's just the hassel of getting the damage they would make breaking it open fixed. I did think of that. But my 2002 has a tonnue cover on it, and I keep the tailgate and cover locked and nobody in 15 years has tried to rip either of those open which are also easily done. So I have discounted that issue as, nothing I can do about it, and I'm not going to not get it because of it.

Sure is!! Boy did I have sticker shock when I first went out shopping! My 02 Loaded Lariat was something like 32k BRAND NEW! How did we get to $68k???? Is there gold in the paint or something?? REDICULOUS!!!

Nice!! Nice to see somebody on here has one of the Ecodiesels already!! So if buy one and have a problem with it, I can blame YOU!!

Do I read your gauge right, you have 5k on it only? You just picked it up then huh? You sound happy with it so far, 27mpg is frikken amazing!! I get 11 or 12 on my 02 F150!! Driving it kills me, I can hear the gas getting sucked in!!!

Test driving the 1500, I felt it drives kinda long. Meaning it feels like a very long truck, maybe longer than it is. Part of it is the big rounded/bulging hood on them, makes it look bigger in front that it is. And it is a long vehicle of course. Did you notice that when test driving it? And if so, have you gotten used to that, and it now feels normal?

Doesn't bother me a bit! Both the bailout OR bringing up in the thread. I never even thought of the bailout... and honestly don't give a hoot about it. ALL of the Jap companies including Honda and Toyota have been bailed out by their guberment several times. And they are given special treatment on taxes and exporting to help them and help them employ people. Something that Trump will do in the US for us if he gets elected, try and help big corps like that instead of making it difficult for us companies to compete. But I digress!

 

I don't know the specs but that sounds good. I have a 1 ton and they're definitely different.

 

There is nothing else to add, just a few gallons of cat urine (or whatever that stuff is) every few years. It's negligible cost. BUT, a real consideration is the added cost of diesel fuel on LI. NY state taxes the CRAP out of diesel fuel with SUCKS! Especially when filling up 250 gallons of it in my boat which is $1 more at the marina than at the street gas station. Even more taxes for shipping! I'm not shipping anything in my dang boat!!

Really? I can't STAND IT!! And all the high end trucks seem to have it, the Platinums and the Larimie's.... because it's an add on, and the high end trucks have everything added on most of the time.

I got a quote today from my buddy with a paint/body shop to paint that tan/gold black. He said aprox. $2,500. I might prep it myself, and have him spray it at a discount..... IF I were to buy that truck.

Yep, VERY true. And as you noted, all that BS from the customer side does nothing but hurt him. It erodes the trust I was trying to establish by walking out. The trust of, if I say something (aka offer a price), I mean it. If you are BS'ing the saleman and they see it, they will also assume your "Take it or leave it price" will also be BS. So you end up loosing the negotiation/control I spoke about.

Good point, don't BS the saleman. That is why I say don't say ANYTHING. "Anything you say can and will be used against you....".

 

That's great that the gaps have gotten in control in the ram boxes. Early models I saw had large gaps that anyone with eyes could see from a ways away.

The Nissan Titan XD diesel is intriguing. It's designed to be heavier than a half ton, but not quite like the f450 or 3500 gm or dodges as far as outright tow ability.

The original Titan was always a nice looking truck, and the only engine being a 5.6 v8 is a nice thing. They are a bit thirtsy, buy they seem to hold up to our salty winters better than most of the big 3.

 

I should remind everyone, I do not need to tow anything, except a log splitter every now and then. So I'm not concerned with towing power. Feel free to argue those comparisons out here... I love mud slinging!!

But I don't need a whole lot of power really.

 

So GM it is then, eh?