Price of firewood vs. fuel oil in northeast

Granted, but the gas station has overhead (employees, electric etc.) plus what he paid for the station in the first place.

 

Not me, I cannot figure this out. Fuel oil prices, gasoline prices.... might as well throw dice as try and figure out what makes these prices move. Sure on some level the price of crude kicks in but for the most part, they are unconnected.

OFFTOPIC: I learned my lesson many years ago: trading stocks, I learned that they price of 1) a stock and 2) stocks is not coupled to anything. And there are some interesting, if not out- right amazing things that happen everyday to prove this. My favorite: suppose that market as a whole is growing by 4%. But a particular stock is expected to ride 8% for one gazillion reasons. And this number is chosen by some who are trusted and have a great following. Then the stock comes in at the end of the quarter at 6 1/2% growth and it..... wait for it..... has a large sell- off and its price drops like the mangy mongrel that it is. Oh sure, it did better than the market as a whole but that is merely reality.... it failed to make the numbers that analysts predicted. This and many other stock behavior I have observed have proven to me that not only are the prices NOT driven by any sane, logical reasons but that whim and idiocy are what are truly the driving forces behind prices. So figure the price of fuel oil? Nah, that is too advancef for me.

There are of course so rational reasons for movement; fuel oil typically rises in the fall, and gasoline rises in the early summer (peak is usually 4 July for the holiday) due to anticipation of increased usage.

Brian

 

true on stocks... it only seems rational to those that due it.. yes HHO (home heating oil) is derived from crude but a lot of the pricing comes from refinery of which there are 6 in US iirc.. been years.. none newer than 1970.. they post efficiency and maintenance schedules for them.. the biggest for HHO is in jersey.. as it HHO is most widely used in northeast

 

Oil creeping up some more: best prices are now $1.81 to $1.85 / gal. at the lowest but some have cracked $2.00 / gal. All discount, wholesale prices.

Brian

 

My wife stacked the firewood that was delivered a week or so ago. The two Holz Hausens to the left are all the new wood- not sure if there are really 2 cord there or not but if not, I think it is close. The wood is really pretty good, all hardwood and pretty dry (going by feel and sound, not metered yet). And a few splits are doing double- duty of drying as well as holding the end of a piece of PEX that is stretched all the way into and through the second floor; that is oxygen barrier PEX, and working with the stuff with the 'coil memory' is not desireable so stretching it out straight and letting the sun have its way with it for a couple of days works wonders. Once you do work with the coiled stuff, you appreciate why plumbers have so many racks of 10' straight sections in their trucks.



Brian

 

I can usually find e-10 87 octane at next month's RBOB plus 60 cents. Any more than that and I figure someone along the line is ripping me off. Much less than that and I had better keep my tanks full because it will soon be going up. I am thinking that a similar relationship between WTI and heating oil exists. You just need to figure out the ratios that you see in your area. About half of that 60 cents I see is state road taxes so the profit part is not exactly large for the local seller.

 

Same for heating oil. WTI doesn't necessarily correlate to distillate prices but NY Harbor ULSD is heating oil. The further one is from NY Harbor, the more it's gonna cost to transport it there to its final point of use.. HO used to be the proxy for jet fuel until they started trading it too. Below you can see the difference between ULSD and WTI.

 

You can look at inflation vs oil.....they usually correlate.
If you want to feel better/worse about prices in general you can look at actual inflation rates.
With the dollar being worth so little oil isn't that expensive.

 

A little update, 15 Oct 2017.

Well, it is cooler here now and people are starting to burn wood, at least occasionally. Oil prices are up considerably, ranging from just a hair under $2 / gal. to ~$2.30/ gal. But the interesting thing is that firewood prices seem to be dropping slightly, and there are a lot of specials around for buying more than one cord at a time and so forth. I think the wood dealers are up to their ears in processed wood and it does not seem to be moving very fast. So maybe we have reached the point where the prices have to fall to make it more attractive to burn wood?

One local dealer (also a tree service company) has used up about all of their available land with processed firewood, piled as high as their conveyor will go. They have been stockpiling for two or three years now and so not only are they out of room but the inventory is going to start to rot. Similar sights all around.

Brian

 

Ive noticed that it seems that even at the higher prices the cost of firewood in RI were cheaper than northern MA/southern NH.

I haven't really been paying attention to the trending costs per.cord, but I have definitely seen the bulk discounts starting to popen up. IMO, it's still a long ways away from making financial sense to me.

 

Here in Maine we have had 2 years of relatively mild winters and this year is starting out VERY mild. Coupled with a pulpwood market that is VERY soft, that excess wood is flooding the firewood market.

Oil has been fairly cheap, and people have been lured back into burning oil instead of firewood.

One customer of mine typically orders 4 cord per year, this year she just needed 1 if that gives you and idea on how mild the winters have been. Another customer usually goes through 10 cords, but last year he burned oil exclusively, so this year...even if he does burn wood...will not need it until next year. He is not alone in that context.

I am not sure to what extent coal is playing into all this, but its price is way down. Hard coal is selling for around $350 a ton, but a ton of it is equal to 2 cord of wood, so at $220 a cord for the equivalent in dry firewood, coal makes for a lower cost than firewood heat wise. Granted not everyone has stoves that can burn both and firewood burners tend to burn firewood, and coal burners burn coal, but price wise there is better options out there than firewood right now. Myself, I have 150% of the firewood I need for the season, but it did not dry as good as I thought, so I am going to buy a couple of tons of coal. By the time that is burned up, my firewood might burn better, or I might just buy coal to finish out the season. Either way I am not buying dry, seasoned firewood at current prices.

 

raybonz also allows you to leave home for a few days too if ya need to

 

A great deal of how good the new boiler is is dependent on how bad the old boiler was. I put in the same thing you describe two years ago and the difference is nothing short of stunning but the old boiler really was old and extremely inefficient, right around 20% by my calculations (most of that due to standby losses which are never calculated into efficiency numbers). The old boiler fired, heated the boiler water to provide DHW, and then the whole thing leaked heat into the cellar and up the chimney until it was time to fire again, and that happened often. The new boiler / DHW tank combination fires for ~11 minutes, then will not fire again for on average 30 hours in the summer because the standby losses are so very low. The boiler cools down but it only holds six gallons of water while the DHW tank stays hot and holds 42 gals. So with oil being more reasonable in price, and having a new, efficient, quiet and great working boiler / heating system, it takes all the urgency out of burning wood. I still do the great majority of heating my house with wood but those times when I do use central heat (baseboard hot water), it is reasonable in cost and very much appreciated.

Brian

 

HA! I researched this for months and ended up choosing that exact same boiler and burner. My burner is a Riello F3, and I upgraded it with a standby air valve that closes when the burner is not running, this prevents heated air from going up the chimney when the boiler is off. I also went with a 42 gal. stainless steel DHW tank and the combination is outstanding. I installed it myself and had a heating 'guy' come by and check it for firing efficiency and it was set up perfectly just as I bought it (I bought the burner set up for that specific boiler and the firing rate I wanted). That is a really nice system that should serve you very well for years. Enjoy!

Brian

 

This is like deja vu all over again. Me too on the Super Stor 42! That system will easily go more than 24 hours between firings for standby losses, after that it will only fire to make up whatever hot water you actually use.

I also went with a reset controller and chose the Honeywell as the best one for my use.

Brian

 

I have 11 yo older style buderus reillo burner..running close to 90% standard 50 gallon hot water tank was energy star when purchased.. on average 5 gallon of fuel a week for hot water in summer. in winter does heat and hot water always use less than 400 gallons oil year.. so at 3 dollar a gallon that's a 100 a month for heat and hot water.. (plus 4 cord wood) not bad for a 2300 square foot house with a lot of glass and vaulted ceilings.. electric bill averages 75 a month .... I thought about upgrading hot water tank and will when it dies.. hard to imagine bill can go down much..

best part in 11 years have not needed a single service besides cleaning